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Difference in DOF Between Panasonic Leica 25mm f/1.4 and Olympus 25mm f/1.8 Wide Open

Discussion in 'Native Lenses' started by Amin Sabet, Feb 22, 2014.

  1. Amin Sabet

    Amin Sabet Administrator

    Apr 10, 2009
    Boston, MA (USA)
    Hopefully everyone has had a chance to check out Napier's excellent Part 1 comparison between the new Olympus 25mm f.1.8 and the Panasonic Leica 25mm f/1.4: Olympus 25mm f/1.8 Impressions Part I: Panasonic Comparison - Build, Perspective, Brightness, Bokeh,

    I thought it would be helpful to do a few supplemental posts to go along with Napier's. For starters, here are some additional examples to demonstrate the difference in DOF between the Panasonic Leica 25mm f/1.4 at f/1.4 and the Olympus 25mm f/1.8 at f/1.8.

    -In each of the following examples, the Olympus lens is shown first, followed by the Panasonic lens. The file names are given, and at the end of the post there are links for the corresponding RAW files for anyone who would like to process them for themselves.
    -2 of the sets were shot on an E-M1 and 3 on a GX7.
    -All files were processed from RAW in Lightroom 5.3 using Auto Tone and Auto WB so don't draw any conclusions about lens color characteristics from these.
    -Since the Olympus angle of view is wider, I moved the tripod forward for the Olympus shot in each case. I did my best to match the framing of the main subject, but moving the tripod and keeping the subject framing consistent means that other elements in the frame will shift. Keep in mind that the DOF differences would have been greater if I had left the tripod in the same place for the Olympus and Panasonic lens shots in these comparisons.


    P1090493 (Olympus lens at f/1.8):

    12708680054_6bf56cd425_b.


    P1090492 (Panasonic Leica lens at f/1.4):

    12708395853_b9a29c5331_b.


    P2220014 (Olympus lens at f/1.8):

    12708209385_0f6b5c1c0c_b.


    P2220013 (Panasonic Leica lens at f/1.4):

    12708210365_b89e1a5c8c_b.


    P2220011 (Olympus lens at f/1.8):

    12708677514_2992637b92_b.


    P2220012 (Panasonic Leica lens at f/1.4):

    12708392433_188b2a98d6_b.


    P1090507 (Olympus lens at f/1.8):

    12708211925_178bfe019f_b.


    P1090505 (Panasonic Leica lens at f/1.4):

    12708678574_6241754059_b.



    RAW files for download:
    P1090492.rw2: https://s3.amazonaws.com/mu43rawfiles/olypana25dof/comps/P1090492.rw2
    P1090493.rw2: https://s3.amazonaws.com/mu43rawfiles/olypana25dof/comps/P1090493.rw2
    P1090503.rw2: https://s3.amazonaws.com/mu43rawfiles/olypana25dof/comps/P1090503.rw2
    P1090504.rw2: https://s3.amazonaws.com/mu43rawfiles/olypana25dof/comps/P1090504.rw2
    P1090505.rw2: https://s3.amazonaws.com/mu43rawfiles/olypana25dof/comps/P1090505.rw2
    P1090507.rw2: https://s3.amazonaws.com/mu43rawfiles/olypana25dof/comps/P1090507.rw2
    P2220011.orf: https://s3.amazonaws.com/mu43rawfiles/olypana25dof/comps/P2220011.orf
    P2220012.orf: https://s3.amazonaws.com/mu43rawfiles/olypana25dof/comps/P2220012.orf
    P2220013.orf: https://s3.amazonaws.com/mu43rawfiles/olypana25dof/comps/P2220013.orf
    P2220014.orf: https://s3.amazonaws.com/mu43rawfiles/olypana25dof/comps/P2220014.orf
     
    Last edited: Aug 21, 2016
    • Like Like x 18
  2. orfeo

    orfeo Mu-43 Top Veteran

    673
    Sep 27, 2013
    FR
    From what I see difference are pretty equal to f3.5 vs f2.8 for a 5cm lens on FF.
    Pl25 has the edge if you favor isolation. Best seen in shot 3
     
  3. unstable_rider

    unstable_rider Mu-43 Regular

    57
    Feb 9, 2014
    Land of Lakes
    Is it just me and tired eyes at 3:30 a.m., or do the images posted from the Olympus have better looking Bokeh results?

    It's a close race in some of them, but certainly in examples "sets" 1 and 2, my personal fav's are the ones shot with the Olympus.

    Normally I favor the Panny products. So this is interesting to at least my style of imaging. :smile:
     
  4. WasOM3user

    WasOM3user Mu-43 Veteran

    458
    Oct 20, 2012
    Lancashire, UK
    Paul
    I just look at these and think WOW how lucky are we to have two very good lenses to choose from:):)

    Without A/B comparisons I think you might struggle to differentiate between the lenses and any differences could easily be masked by any PP.

    If someone buys either of these lenses they should be congratulated on a wise purchase.

    If you really need F1.4 or better you will probably already know this and be looking at F0.95 options as well.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  5. Amin Sabet

    Amin Sabet Administrator

    Apr 10, 2009
    Boston, MA (USA)
    If you're interested in bokeh, be sure to also check out the comparisons I did at matched f-stops here: https://www.mu-43.com/showthread.php?t=60618
     
  6. Dramaturg

    Dramaturg Mu-43 Top Veteran

    614
    Jun 7, 2013
    Ukraine
    Yevgen
    Seems like Panasonic gives better subject isolation, which will be very visible on half to full body portraits.
     
  7. Fmrvette

    Fmrvette This Space For Rent

    May 26, 2012
    Detroit, Michigan
    Jim
    You guys are nothing but trouble...now I'm thinking about getting a 25mm to replace my beloved 20mm.

    I gotta quit stopping by this nefarious joint.

    :biggrin:

    (Seriously - I'm debating on whether the Olympus 25mm added focal length and speed are worth trading off the Panasonic 20mm advantage in size and weight. The Panasonic 25mm wasn't such a temptation because of the (relative) size compared to the 20mm but the Olympus has shaved that down by a bit...).

    Sigh. :shakehead:

    Regards,

    Jim

    Edit: Here's where I do miss the "old days" of having multiple brick 'n mortar camera stores within driving distance. It was easier to do a hands on test. Now I'm down to two, one of which stocks very little Olympus gear and the other is 25 miles away. Sigh.
     
  8. Art

    Art Mu-43 All-Pro

    Mar 13, 2011
    San Francisco, CA
    if both lenses are exact same price, which one would you buy?
     
  9. Dramaturg

    Dramaturg Mu-43 Top Veteran

    614
    Jun 7, 2013
    Ukraine
    Yevgen
    Just looked through the images again and it seems that I like the 1,4 results of Panasonic better. Just look at the last two sets of the images and image a living person standing there. Panasonic will get you much closer to the FF look. There is really a great difference at the longer distance.
     
  10. Clint

    Clint Mu-43 All-Pro

    Apr 22, 2013
    San Diego area, CA
    Clint
    Quite an interesting comparison Amin - especially consider your remarks "His testing methods are not rigorous enough, and it happens that several of his choices worked out in favor of the Olympus lens." and the rest in Post #61 of this thread, https://www.mu-43.com/showthread.php?t=60250&page=7

    Despite the comments, the comparisons Robin Wong, Napier, and you have provided are worthwhile!
     
  11. Amin Sabet

    Amin Sabet Administrator

    Apr 10, 2009
    Boston, MA (USA)
    Hi Clint, I wish I had held my tongue about Robin's comparison. There was so much flaming over that discussion, and I should have known better than to say my piece in the forum. I'm asking everyone to please leave behind the contentious discussion of Robin's comparison. I agree that there was some good stuff in his comparison, and I'm glad you find Napier and my contributions worthwhile as well.

    I have more coming soon with regards to color fringing and sharpness. Some of it matches others' findings, and some of it doesn't. Mostly I'd like to present the data and let everyone draw their own conclusions.
     
    • Like Like x 2
  12. Dramaturg

    Dramaturg Mu-43 Top Veteran

    614
    Jun 7, 2013
    Ukraine
    Yevgen
    FFwise, does it mean that Olympus has DOF equal to f3.6 while Panasonic - f2.8? One stop difference on FF is pretty visible. I just don't understant why Panasonic has so much more background blur on your wider shots. Actually after I read your reviews I started thinking about buying a Panasonic lens because the f1.4 really matters.
     
  13. Amin Sabet

    Amin Sabet Administrator

    Apr 10, 2009
    Boston, MA (USA)
    It's not so simple. The Panasonic does have DOF equal to FF f/2.8 while the Oly has DOF equal to FF 3.6, which is 2/3 of a stop different whether you call it f/1.8 and f/1.4 or f/2.8 and f/3.6. However, one full frame 50mm f/2 lens can have different apparent DOF compared with another full frame 50mm f/2 lens, depending on things like bokeh character, field curvature, other aberrations, and subject distance/placement. As an example, look at these two full frame Zeiss lenses at 35mm anf f/2 - does the DOF look the same?
     
  14. OzRay

    OzRay Mu-43 Legend

    Jan 29, 2010
    South Gippsland, Australia
    Ray, not Oz
    How much wider is the Olympus lens compared to the Panasonic one? As width increases, depth of field tends to increase as well, so is it reasonable to compare these two lenses just because of a number printed on the barrel? If they differ significantly enough that FOV comparisons can't be made without moving one or the other, it seems that these are not in fact apples with apples comparisons.
     
  15. Amin Sabet

    Amin Sabet Administrator

    Apr 10, 2009
    Boston, MA (USA)
    How much wider is the Olympus? Very little wider. See also here: https://www.mu-43.com/showthread.php?t=60649

    As stated in the OP, I did move the tripod slightly in order to as best as possible match the subject size and position within the frame. It's as apples to apples as I could get it.

    As also noted in the OP, the DOF differences shown here would have been greater had I not moved the tripod forward for each of the Olympus shots.
     
  16. orfeo

    orfeo Mu-43 Top Veteran

    673
    Sep 27, 2013
    FR
    The Olympus is wider than the voigtlander F0.95 in the recent dutch review. Wong wanted to create the confusion stating that F1.4 and F1.8 has not much difference in bokeh, but as your shot show, there is at middle distance background.

    Your shots of distant background looks the same as expected.

    F2.8 and F3.5 on full frame is significant difference in bokeh capacity. 3.5 is bordering slow, while 2.8 begin fast... my 2 cents.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  17. OzRay

    OzRay Mu-43 Legend

    Jan 29, 2010
    South Gippsland, Australia
    Ray, not Oz
    I'm not sure moving the camera has been a good idea, as after having a closer look at the original images in this post, they don't have the same coverage. I think it would have been better to just show things as they are, from exactly the same setup, but simply changing lenses. Doing otherwise seems to introduce more complexity than anything else.
     
  18. Amin Sabet

    Amin Sabet Administrator

    Apr 10, 2009
    Boston, MA (USA)
    They don't have the same coverage if you look at the edges/background, but if you look at the subject size and placement they have the same coverage, or as nearly as I could get it in the time allotted. One has to choose, and I think subject framing is the most relevant variable to hold constant.

    As I mentioned above, all DOF differences shown would have been greater if I hadn't moved the tripod, so if anyone considers any of the differences shown to be of any practical importance, they would have been all the more so had I not moved the tripod.
     
  19. Amin Sabet

    Amin Sabet Administrator

    Apr 10, 2009
    Boston, MA (USA)
    For completeness sake, I went out on my front stoop just now and shot two more DOF comparisons, this time without moving the tripod position at all.

    P2240002 (Olympus lens at f/1.8):

    12756012855_fd8d8db8ab_b.


    P2240001 (Panasonic lens at f/1.4):

    12756443584_750598acfb_b.


    P2240003 (OLympus lens at f/1.8):

    12756446134_c31c4abdc1_b.


    P2240004 (Panasonic lens at f/1.4):

    12756139863_bd64441783_b.


    RAW files for download:
    -P2240001.orf: https://s3.amazonaws.com/mu43rawfiles/25mmDOFfixedperspect/P2240001.orf
    -P2240002.orf: https://s3.amazonaws.com/mu43rawfiles/25mmDOFfixedperspect/P2240002.orf
    -P2240003.orf: https://s3.amazonaws.com/mu43rawfiles/25mmDOFfixedperspect/P2240003.orf
    -P2240004.orf: https://s3.amazonaws.com/mu43rawfiles/25mmDOFfixedperspect/P2240004.orf
     
    • Like Like x 1
  20. FastCorner

    FastCorner Mu-43 Veteran

    308
    May 28, 2011
    The PL 25mm f/1.4 bokeh looks smoother to me. I'll be keeping my copy of that lens.