Darktable 3.0.0 released

junkyardsparkle

haunted scrap heap
Joined
Nov 17, 2016
Messages
2,371
According to the programmer, tone equalizer (along with filmic) was developed to replace exposure and base curve. I still haven't figured out if he intended for us to use either/or, or in conjunction with each other.
Well, tone equalizer does local tonemapping, and filmic does global tonemapping (unless you use it with masks). Speaking broadly, you'll just about always want to do at least some kind of global remapping of the linear RAW data... that's what the most basic in-camera processing does. Local tone mapping is what the more "magic" in-camera features do, the ones with names like "D-light" or whatever... they detect regions of shadow and highlight and process those regions differently (generally to pull them closer to the middle). One doesn't preclude the other, but on very dynamic images like sunsets, etc you might very well decide to just use the tone equalizer, since you probably want to keep the more linear, saturated midrange and uncompressed highlights. It just depends on what you're trying to do. The 3.0 release notes where those modules are introduced gives a summary of what they attempt to replace.
What's the issue with shadows and highlights?
I think I linked to an earlier draft of this article before, but this is the more fully translated and readable version: https://pixls.us/articles/darktable-3-rgb-or-lab-which-modules-help/#modules-not-recommended
Seems like color balance of all things seems to be the go to for contrast adjustments as an alternative to filmic.
It's got that nice fulcrum control (it gets a little jumpy pushed towards the far left, but Ctrl+Scroll works there). That module will be a comfortable interface for people coming from the cinema world, who want to use a "color grading" approach to their pictures. Usually I don't, but I have been allowing myself a little more "creative" coloration for things like artsy-fartsy flower pictures lately. It's a versatile module, for sure.
 

Brownie

Mu-43 Hall of Famer
Joined
Sep 3, 2018
Messages
2,332
Location
SE Michigan
Real Name
Tim
I think I linked to an earlier draft of this article before, but this is the more fully translated and readable version: https://pixls.us/articles/darktable-3-rgb-or-lab-which-modules-help/#modules-not-recommended
His description of Shadows and Highlights is exactly what I said. Good if used sparingly but push it a bit and it gets silly. It was also interesting to see what he says about sharpness and digital photographers in the 21st century. I find the default sharpness in the Contrast Equalizer too aggressive and have a preset that's about half. One would think that given his thoughts, they'd change the default to something more realistic and let those who want to push do so themselves.
 
Joined
Jan 24, 2013
Messages
1,080
Location
Harwich, MA USA
Real Name
Marc Sitkin
Well, tone equalizer does local tonemapping, and filmic does global tonemapping (unless you use it with masks). Speaking broadly, you'll just about always want to do at least some kind of global remapping of the linear RAW data... that's what the most basic in-camera processing does. Local tone mapping is what the more "magic" in-camera features do, the ones with names like "D-light" or whatever... they detect regions of shadow and highlight and process those regions differently (generally to pull them closer to the middle). One doesn't preclude the other, but on very dynamic images like sunsets, etc you might very well decide to just use the tone equalizer, since you probably want to keep the more linear, saturated midrange and uncompressed highlights. It just depends on what you're trying to do. The 3.0 release notes where those modules are introduced gives a summary of what they attempt to replace.

I think I linked to an earlier draft of this article before, but this is the more fully translated and readable version: https://pixls.us/articles/darktable-3-rgb-or-lab-which-modules-help/#modules-not-recommended

It's got that nice fulcrum control (it gets a little jumpy pushed towards the far left, but Ctrl+Scroll works there). That module will be a comfortable interface for people coming from the cinema world, who want to use a "color grading" approach to their pictures. Usually I don't, but I have been allowing myself a little more "creative" coloration for things like artsy-fartsy flower pictures lately. It's a versatile module, for sure.
What are your thoughts on that type of histogram he's using?
 

junkyardsparkle

haunted scrap heap
Joined
Nov 17, 2016
Messages
2,371
Good if used sparingly
I don't think the word "good" appears anywhere in that description. ;) If you like the results you're getting from it, that's all that matters. The gist of what he's getting at (explained earlier in the article than the point I linked to) is that the L*a*b modules are based on an outdated model, and are inherently broken with respect to the dynamic ranges our RAW files can throw at them these days. That doesn't mean you can't find some limited ways of using them that don't look terrible... the proverbial broken clock right twice a day etc... but providing less broken alternatives to these modules is a good thing, even if finding the best way to do it is a clumsy process sometimes...
I find the default sharpness in the Contrast Equalizer too aggressive and have a preset that's about half. One would think that given his thoughts, they'd change the default to something more realistic and let those who want to push do so themselves.
The default setting of that module is a no-op, so I guess you mean the built-in "sharpness" preset? That's just a legacy textbook example of ramping linearly with frequency that's always been in there IIRC... the idea being that you can use the "mix" slider to adjust the degree to what you actually want, I guess... I've never really used it myself, though. I have to agree with the sentiment about pixel-level sharpening being something people seem to lose perspective on... for most purposes, the "local contrast" module works at a scale that makes more sense perceptually.
What are your thoughts on that type of histogram he's using?
Assuming you're talking about the guy in the video (didn't watch, guess maybe I will later) and that he's using the waveform histogram... those are intended to give meaningful information about a scene at the time of capturing video... TBH I don't really see the attraction (other than novelty) of using it while editing images... if he gives some rationale for it, I'd probably find that interesting... maybe I'm just being dense, it happens... :rolleyes:
 
Joined
Jan 24, 2013
Messages
1,080
Location
Harwich, MA USA
Real Name
Marc Sitkin
I don't think the word "good" appears anywhere in that description. ;) If you like the results you're getting from it, that's all that matters. The gist of what he's getting at (explained earlier in the article than the point I linked to) is that the L*a*b modules are based on an outdated model, and are inherently broken with respect to the dynamic ranges our RAW files can throw at them these days. That doesn't mean you can't find some limited ways of using them that don't look terrible... the proverbial broken clock right twice a day etc... but providing less broken alternatives to these modules is a good thing, even if finding the best way to do it is a clumsy process sometimes...

The default setting of that module is a no-op, so I guess you mean the built-in "sharpness" preset? That's just a legacy textbook example of ramping linearly with frequency that's always been in there IIRC... the idea being that you can use the "mix" slider to adjust the degree to what you actually want, I guess... I've never really used it myself, though. I have to agree with the sentiment about pixel-level sharpening being something people seem to lose perspective on... for most purposes, the "local contrast" module works at a scale that makes more sense perceptually.

Assuming you're talking about the guy in the video (didn't watch, guess maybe I will later) and that he's using the waveform histogram... those are intended to give meaningful information about a scene at the time of capturing video... TBH I don't really see the attraction (other than novelty) of using it while editing images... if he gives some rationale for it, I'd probably find that interesting... maybe I'm just being dense, it happens... :rolleyes:
No explanation, it's just there. I've seen it in Davinci Resolve as an option as well, but haven't done much color grading, so I don't know the ins and outs. Another research project for a quarantine day.
 
Joined
Jan 24, 2013
Messages
1,080
Location
Harwich, MA USA
Real Name
Marc Sitkin
I'm 6 months into running darktable now, and am using it in production on a desktop Linux Manjaro/Gnome install. All is going pretty well with it, few crashes or lockups, and I get a lot done. Have successfully hooked it up to GIMP, and getting use to that software as well. Still have to run Windows10 in a virtual machine to get to my printers, but it's pretty smooth workflow.I have a MacbookPro I use when traveling, but not doing any of that now. On the laptop, I run a vm with Manjaro Gnome, as well as a new install of Manjaro KDE Plasma. I'm going to test out the KDE version for a while, see how it goes.

Any body have any comments pro or con on the Gnome/KDE desktops. I chose Gnome for the desktop because it seemed more stable when I did the install earlier this year. I'm thinking about doing a bare metal install of Manjaro Linux on the laptop in a few months, and will decide then which flavor to choose.

Looking forward to any opinions you care to share.

ps: I do get a certain pleasure in getting images into Adobe Stock via the Linux software.🤫
 

Darmok N Jalad

Temba, his aperture wide
Joined
Sep 6, 2019
Messages
630
Location
Tanagra (not really)
Real Name
Randy
I'm 6 months into running darktable now, and am using it in production on a desktop Linux Manjaro/Gnome install. All is going pretty well with it, few crashes or lockups, and I get a lot done. Have successfully hooked it up to GIMP, and getting use to that software as well. Still have to run Windows10 in a virtual machine to get to my printers, but it's pretty smooth workflow.I have a MacbookPro I use when traveling, but not doing any of that now. On the laptop, I run a vm with Manjaro Gnome, as well as a new install of Manjaro KDE Plasma. I'm going to test out the KDE version for a while, see how it goes.

Any body have any comments pro or con on the Gnome/KDE desktops. I chose Gnome for the desktop because it seemed more stable when I did the install earlier this year. I'm thinking about doing a bare metal install of Manjaro Linux on the laptop in a few months, and will decide then which flavor to choose.

Looking forward to any opinions you care to share.

ps: I do get a certain pleasure in getting images into Adobe Stock via the Linux software.🤫
Oh, the irony of having to use Windows to print! Pretty much all of my printing struggles have come on Windows, sometimes to the point of manually stopping services and going into hidden folders to delete jobs that clog the queue. My printer is an HP OfficeJet Pro 8100, which has performed near flawlessly for almost a decade now. Every Mac, Android, iOS and Linux Device can install and print wirelessly to it, but not Windows. Sure, Windows detects the printer and sets it up for wireless printing, but it pretty much never works, resulting in the clogged print queue. You have to go down to the basement and plug it in via USB. The downright funny part about it was that I bought this specific printer because you could print to it through Windows RT. Remember when that was a thing? :D

If you want a really light UI, you can try Xfce. Most popular distros have an Xfce variant.
 

junkyardsparkle

haunted scrap heap
Joined
Nov 17, 2016
Messages
2,371
Any body have any comments pro or con on the Gnome/KDE desktops. I chose Gnome for the desktop because it seemed more stable when I did the install earlier this year. I'm thinking about doing a bare metal install of Manjaro Linux on the laptop in a few months, and will decide then which flavor to choose.
If I had to use a desktop, it would probably be XFCE, but I don't, so I just use a minimal window manager setup. I realize not everybody's interested in a minimalist approach, but there's something to be said for it when you want hardware resources to be fully available to the actual applications you're running. I haven't really kept up with the Gnome/KDE two-party system, but my impression is that Plasma is more likely to compete for GPU resources... if that's a consideration, you might want to investigate that aspect of things...
 
Joined
Jan 24, 2013
Messages
1,080
Location
Harwich, MA USA
Real Name
Marc Sitkin
Oh, the irony of having to use Windows to print! Pretty much all of my printing struggles have come on Windows, sometimes to the point of manually stopping services and going into hidden folders to delete jobs that clog the queue. My printer is an HP OfficeJet Pro 8100, which has performed near flawlessly for almost a decade now. Every Mac, Android, iOS and Linux Device can install and print wirelessly to it, but not Windows. Sure, Windows detects the printer and sets it up for wireless printing, but it pretty much never works, resulting in the clogged print queue. You have to go down to the basement and plug it in via USB. The downright funny part about it was that I bought this specific printer because you could print to it through Windows RT. Remember when that was a thing? :D

If you want a really light UI, you can try Xfce. Most popular distros have an Xfce variant.
The other ironic situation is that to get to the Canon Pro-1000, I use their plugin with photoshop. I'm not having any problems with the wireless setup on the VM machine, and I do like Canon's print utility. I can also use QImage to reach it on Windows, but that program is very convoluted.
 
Joined
Jan 24, 2013
Messages
1,080
Location
Harwich, MA USA
Real Name
Marc Sitkin
If I had to use a desktop, it would probably be XFCE, but I don't, so I just use a minimal window manager setup. I realize not everybody's interested in a minimalist approach, but there's something to be said for it when you want hardware resources to be fully available to the actual applications you're running. I haven't really kept up with the Gnome/KDE two-party system, but my impression is that Plasma is more likely to compete for GPU resources... if that's a consideration, you might want to investigate that aspect of things...
I've been looking at the resource overhead on XFCE,Gnome, and KDE Plasma, not much difference between them. Not enough to notice on the relatively modern hardware I'm on. It seems like a few months on KDE will give me some more insights. I did an install with Manajro XFCE, and it went well, so I may take another look at that.

Eventually, I'd like to settle on one desktop for each computer. Seems like the times to watch out for are after major desktop upgrades, as that's when things can get a little shaky. My backup strategy has gotten me out of a couple jams, so I'm a bit more confident these days. The Manjaro rolling releases have been pretty pain free, only a couple of times I needed to revert back.
 
Links on this page may be to our affiliates. Sales through affiliate links may benefit this site.
Mu-43 is a fan site and not associated with Olympus, Panasonic, or other manufacturers mentioned on this site.
Forum post reactions by Twemoji: https://github.com/twitter/twemoji
Copyright © 2009-2019 Amin Forums, LLC
Top Bottom