[deleted]

[marcsitkin]

Could you send me a link to your smugmug account? I'd like to check it out. Maybe as an alternate to my Zenfolio host account. Thanks.

Zenfolio replied:

Hi Marc,

Thanks for writing into Zenfolio Support. So sorry to hear about these troubles with your files.

After taking a look at the image file you sent over (thank you for that!) it appears that while the keywords are present on the file, they're not exported with the appropriate type of metadata. It appears that the metadata on this file is XMP and the Zenfolio system only recognizes IPTC metadata information.

You'll need to make sure that you're exporting your photos with IPTC metadata and not XMP. If the Darktable program does not allow for IPTC metadata exporting, then unfortunately this information will not be able to be uploaded with your photos and you would need to use another method of adding the keyword information.
On way to add keywords to bulk images you've uploaded would be through the Bulk Metadata Update.

But again, in order for this information to be brought into your account when you upload the images, the metadata will need to be IPTC metadata.

Let me know if you have any other questions

 

[0000]

then unfortunately this information will not be able to be uploaded with your photos

Well, that's certainly a funny way of saying "we won't bother looking for the information which is uploaded with your photos"... astonishing, considering that XMP is a well-established ISO standard, put in place by none other than Adobe and IPTC themselves. I'm gobsmacked. As to the on-topic question of getting darktable to write actual legacy IPTC/IIM sections to exported files, it might be a hard sell (there are some old issues related to that, but they seem to have run out of steam). It's really much cleaner to keep this info in one place, rather than expecting all software to keep everything in sync... and just looking at the size limits on some of the IPTC/IIM text fields (32 bytes?!) gives a sense of why it's a "legacy" standard.

Could you send me a link to your smugmug account? I'd like to check it out. Maybe as an alternate to my Zenfolio host account.

None of it is public, sorry... it's basically a friends/family archive. There are plenty of the other kind hosted there, though, and IIRC they do a free trial thing... I think there are also some threads around here somewhere discussing/comparing smugmug, zenfolio, etc. I'll say that I'm pretty happy with how smugmug handles metadata (tag clouds are fun for what is essentially a collective memory in photos) but it's probably not the best video host in the world...

 

[marcsitkin]

Well, that's certainly a funny way of saying "we won't bother looking for the information which is uploaded with your photos"... astonishing, considering that XMP is a well-established ISO standard, put in place by none other than Adobe and IPTC themselves. I'm gobsmacked. As to the on-topic question of getting darktable to write actual legacy IPTC/IIM sections to exported files, it might be a hard sell (there are some old issues related to that, but they seem to have run out of steam). It's really much cleaner to keep this info in one place, rather than expecting all software to keep everything in sync... and just looking at the size limits on some of the IPTC/IIM text fields (32 bytes?!) gives a sense of why it's a "legacy" standard.

None of it is public, sorry... it's basically a friends/family archive. There are plenty of the other kind hosted there, though, and IIRC they do a free trial thing... I think there are also some threads around here somewhere discussing/comparing smugmug, zenfolio, etc. I'll say that I'm pretty happy with how smugmug handles metadata (tag clouds are fun for what is essentially a collective memory in photos) but it's probably not the best video host in the world...

No problem. Have you had any experience using the edit metadata exportation details? It pops up if you press the gear next to the export button.

 

[0000]

Have you had any experience using the edit metadata exportation details? It pops up if you press the gear next to the export button.

Oh, some... but I hadn't really messed with the "per metadata settings" part yet. Since it was on my TODO list, I just now tried adding Iptc.Application2.Keywords as a redefined tag with a "formula" of $(TAGS)... and it seems to work! So I guess that would be your solution... it's not clear to me how using that section works along with the checkboxes (guessing it overrides them), and I probably won't play with it anymore right now, so if you figure it out you can explain it to me.

 

[marcsitkin]

Oh, some... but I hadn't really messed with the "per metadata settings" part yet. Since it was on my TODO list, I just now tried adding Iptc.Application2.Keywords as a redefined tag with a "formula" of $(TAGS)... and it seems to work! So I guess that would be your solution... it's not clear to me how using that section works along with the checkboxes (guessing it overrides them), and I probably won't play with it anymore right now, so if you figure it out you can explain it to me.

I'll take a look, but I took a closer look at my export before messing with it, and all the IPTC data seemed to be there. I think its something on Zenfolios end. I did open up a Smugmug account, and everything metadata wise seems to show just fine. I'm going to delve further into Smugmug, and maybe make the switch. I think they have a bit of an attitude problem at Zen, and the interface is getting pretty dated. My needs are much simpler now that I've retired as well. Thanks for looking at this stuff.

 

[0000]

I took a closer look at my export before messing with it, and all the IPTC data seemed to be there. I think its something on Zenfolios end.

It's there, it's just not in the place they're looking for it (new IPTC/XMP instead of old IPTC/IIM... using the -G option with exiftool will make this more obvious). It seems odd that a service like that wouldn't want to support everything possible in that regard, but go figure... meanwhile, I'll present the idea of providing an easier one-click option for exporting basic IPTC/IIM in darktable, since it's halfway there anyway.

 

[marcsitkin]

Been working with darktable for a bit over a week now, and am happy with the results I'm getting. I've narrowed down my work flow to about a half dozen module choices, and am picking up speed. Still lots to learn.

Am noticing that I am crashing the program on the Mac with increasing frequency however. Only losing the edits on whatever image I'm working on. Also had a crash on export of 19 images on number 16. Recovery was fast, just a relaunch and send out what didn't go.

Overall, pretty good, and hopefully the bugs will get worked out.

 

[DefectiveMonk]

Been working with darktable for a bit over a week now, and am happy with the results I'm getting. I've narrowed down my work flow to about a half dozen module choices, and am picking up speed. Still lots to learn.

I'm another who's making the switch. Someone earlier in the thread recommended Bruce Williams' series of Darktable videos which have been super-helpful. I think Lightroom does a little more in basics before it hands you an image making it easier to get a minimally usable image.

The things I never figured out in earlier dabbling with with Darktable were getting noise reduction to produce a usable result [Denoise (Bilateral filter) with a radius of 3ish to 10ish seems to work for me now] and how to do local adjustments (masks thanks to Bruce Williams above).

I'm also on Mac but I'm not having any stability issues.

Now I'm looking for an iOS RAW editor for when I'm out on the road.

 

[felipegeek]

I'm another who's making the switch. Someone earlier in the thread recommended Bruce Williams' series of Darktable videos which have been super-helpful. I think Lightroom does a little more in basics before it hands you an image making it easier to get a minimally usable image.

The things I never figured out in earlier dabbling with with Darktable were getting noise reduction to produce a usable result [Denoise (Bilateral filter) with a radius of 3ish to 10ish seems to work for me now] and how to do local adjustments (masks thanks to Bruce Williams above).

I'm also on Mac but I'm not having any stability issues.

Now I'm looking for an iOS RAW editor for when I'm out on the road.

I don't edit on the phone often but I usually use Google Snapseed when I do. I have a Lightning connector SDCard reader and copy an Oly raw or two to the phone then tweak and export and post to IG. I think that with iOS 13 you can import the files directly into the photo library as well but I'm not completely sure if it does raw as well or only the jpegs.

 

[Darmok N Jalad]

I don't edit on the phone often but I usually use Google Snapseed when I do. I have a Lightning connector SDCard reader and copy an Oly raw or two to the phone then tweak and export and post to IG. I think that with iOS 13 you can import the files directly into the photo library as well but I'm not completely sure if it does raw as well or only the jpegs.

Photos on iOS handles RAW just fine. iCloud will even store the format to the cloud and leave your developed JPG on the device.

 

[0000]

Am noticing that I am crashing the program on the Mac with increasing frequency however.

That shouldn't be the case, but unfortunately, issues which are reproducible only on Mac or Windows (or sometimes only certain versions or setups thereof) have a much smaller pool of developers who are able to troubleshoot them... although this situation seems to be shifting somewhat as dt becomes more popular on Windows, at least. If you can narrow down a repeatable test case, and maybe get some debug info from the console, then creating a github issue is the next step.

I think Lightroom does a little more in basics before it hands you an image making it easier to get a minimally usable image.

No doubt about it, and while this is probably one of the bigger hurdles for anyone transitioning, this aspect of darktable probably won't be entirely eliminated anytime soon, although the situation is improving. Some of the reasons are technical: as an open source project, there's no licensing of proprietary information from camera companies which would help with this... and some are philosophical (you should learn a little something about what fundamental processes take your shot from a bunch of raw data to a plausible representation of a scene, so that you can make informed choices about what to change in order to get the result you want). That said, for anyone willing to put in the effort to get their workflow set up, the available tools for using in that workflow are getting to be pretty slick. Also, since this relates quite a bit to specific camera models (or groups thereof), it's a good place for communities like this one to fill in the gaps by sharing starting points as "dtstyle" files... the modular nature of dt's processing lends itself to this.

The things I never figured out in earlier dabbling with with Darktable were getting noise reduction to produce a usable result [Denoise (Bilateral filter) with a radius of 3ish to 10ish seems to work for me now]

The newly enhanced "denoise (profiled)" module is really the best thing to use for most purposes (assuming there's a profile for your camera, but maybe even if there isn't)... although some of the other denoise modules are more useful for specialized technical purposes (astro, etc) and probably some other extreme situations.

 

[Darmok N Jalad]

I’ve had no trouble with LT crashing on my Windows machine. It’s a custom build—2700X, 16GB RAM, RX 570 with my working pictures folder ion an NVMe drive.

I noticed it doesn’t detect my SDcard, so I just copy the photos to the Darktable folder and then reload it after an “import.”

 

[Brownie]

Dartktable has never had decent photo storage management, and I dislike trying to find images in it. I open each file from Windows using "Open With".

Maybe I'm a luddite, but the simplest thing I've found is to simply let Windows import the files. Since I shoot JPEG/RAW and process every keeper, it doesn't matter to me it if kills the JPEG resolution. RAW remains unaffected. By doing it this way I get a shiny new folder with the camera roll for that upload and I can browse the JPEG images, deleting what I don't want as I go.

When I process the RAW files I create a new folder within the original titled 'processed' where images are saved as JPEGs @ 100% quality. If I upload something to Flickr it gets downsized and reduce the quality, and again create a folder within that folder titled 'net'. These take up very little space.

 

[DefectiveMonk]

The newly enhanced "denoise (profiled)" module is really the best thing to use for most purposes (assuming there's a profile for your camera, but maybe even if there isn't)... although some of the other denoise modules are more useful for specialized technical purposes (astro, etc) and probably some other extreme situations.

Hmm. I wasn't happy with the profiled denoise a week ago but I tried it again based on this recommendation and it does work very well. Maybe the image I was using to test just wasn't a good fit. Thank you for the pointer.

 

[marcsitkin]

That shouldn't be the case, but unfortunately, issues which are reproducible only on Mac or Windows (or sometimes only certain versions or setups thereof) have a much smaller pool of developers who are able to troubleshoot them... although this situation seems to be shifting somewhat as dt becomes more popular on Windows, at least. If you can narrow down a repeatable test case, and maybe get some debug info from the console, then creating a github issue is the next step.

I do get a screen with a log that supposedly goes to Apple automatically. Would the info there be useful to the developers if I copied/pasted it to a Github issue? I'd be happy to do so. Seems to happen after a half hour or so of working in DT, and is more frequent if I have a chrome browser running. My next step is to run the Mac disk repair utility and see if anything is amiss. I also have the habit of suing the computer without a shutdown/restart fro days at a time. Might have to change this behavior.

I'm planning on setting up my main workstation at home with a Linux/Win dual boot setup. It looks like the only time I'll need to spend in Win is for some video editing on Davinci resolve, and an obscure program I use for segmented bowl design.

 

[0000]

I noticed it doesn’t detect my SDcard, so I just copy the photos to the Darktable folder and then reload it after an “import.”

That seems odd, but I've never used darktable for pulling stuff off the cards, so not sure what's "normal" in that regard. To my mind, operations like this don't really have anything to do with any specific image software, and are best handled in a more generic way... otherwise, it's just one more potential source of discomfort when trying some other software...

Hmm. I wasn't happy with the profiled denoise a week ago but I tried it again based on this recommendation and it does work very well. Maybe the image I was using to test just wasn't a good fit. Thank you for the pointer.

It's always possible that the profile for a given camera might need improving... what's the camera/ISO range in question? I've only used the module on a few... and I'm certainly not trying to talk you out of the evidence of your senses, so use what gives you the best results.

I do get a screen with a log that supposedly goes to Apple automatically. Would the info there be useful to the developers if I copied/pasted it to a Github issue?

Hard to say without seeing it, but it never hurts to include more information when reporting an issue (but if it's many lines of debugging info, attaching as a text file is probably best)... you should probably audit a dump like that for personal info first, though. Starting darktable from a console gives varying degrees of useful output, depending on the debug option given (using "-d all" generates a lot). The best bug reports include steps which will always produce the problem... but for things like memory leaks (which this sounds like) that can be hard to do. If you have a way of keeping an eye on memory usage (including GPU memory, if possible) that might give some clues. Also, if disabling OpenCL in preferences prevents it from happening, that's useful information too.

I also have the habit of suing the computer

I thought Mac users were forced to sign arbitration agreements?

 

[DefectiveMonk]

So, today I spent some quality time with Darktable and some crap pictures of stuff around the house for the specific purpose of coming up with a real work flow now that I know a little bit about how it works. The biggest thing I did was set up some presets for Lens Correction, Contrast Brightness and Saturation, and Sharpening that I was doing for almost every image and then set them to auto apply to every image by leaving the criteria all wildcards. I can always tweak after the fact.

This makes a HUGE difference in initial image quality after import and saves me a ton of time. I also set up some presets for other frequently used modules so I hope I'm good to go. I'm going cancel my LR subscription at the end of the billing cycle.

Many thanks to @junkyardsparkle for the suggestions and guidance provided here.

Is there a "Using Darktable" thread yet? Maybe we need to get one going.

 

[Brownie]

So, today I spent some quality time with Darktable and some crap pictures of stuff around the house for the specific purpose of coming up with a real work flow now that I know a little bit about how it works. The biggest thing I did was set up some presets for Lens Correction, Contrast Brightness and Saturation, and Sharpening that I was doing for almost every image and then set them to auto apply to every image by leaving the criteria all wildcards. I can always tweak after the fact.

This makes a HUGE difference in initial image quality after import and saves me a ton of time. I also set up some presets for other frequently used modules so I hope I'm good to go. I'm going cancel my LR subscription at the end of the billing cycle.

Many thanks to @junkyardsparkle for the suggestions and guidance provided here.

Is there a "Using Darktable" thread yet? Maybe we need to get one going.

If you haven't tried it yet, the Contrast Equalizer (formerly called Equalizer) has a very good sharpen function. I used to use the default, but lately I find that a bit too sharp, so I dialed it back and saved as a favorite. There is also a decent NR/Sharpen in the same module. There are others but I find some too aggressive and prefer to use other modules. I see they've added deblur to it as well, haven't messed with them yet. The Contrast Equalizer is kind of like a Swiss Army Knife, it will do quite a bit.

 

[0000]

This makes a HUGE difference in initial image quality after import and saves me a ton of time. I also set up some presets for other frequently used modules so I hope I'm good to go.

Yep, this is the place to get to for any kind of efficient use; you want to be working with the software, not fighting it on every single image. I would suggest keeping this a flexible, adaptive situation and not getting too entrenched... I guess I think of the default setup as a kind of sculpture-in-progress, especially now that I'm trying to adapt to a more scene-referred linear RGB approach. It's good to have a little collection of familiar, widely varied shots for an initial test of whatever changes you're considering.

Is there a "Using Darktable" thread yet? Maybe we need to get one going.

Hard to say what the best balance of general/specific is for that kind of thing... might be fun to have one that's kind of a running "how would you process this RAW?" discussion, but with an emphasis on comparing notes rather than any kind of "contest"... especially since it's possible to "bake" the processing history into JPEGs so that others can load it just like a sidecar file - no need for painstaking descriptions of the precise settings...

The Contrast Equalizer is kind of like a Swiss Army Knife, it will do quite a bit.

Indeed. It can also really make a mess of an image if you aren't careful to recalibrate your eyes/brain by toggling it off periodically! I didn't really like the presets that used to ship with it, but I just took another look, and the new "deblur" presets are actually quite sane for that purpose. For things at a larger scale than that I generally like the "local contrast" module better, though; it's easier to make quick adjustments (and harder to make ones that will make you cringe later).

 

[Brownie]

There have been many times I've had to reset the module and start over. Sometimes I shut it off.