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Dandelion Chip

Discussion in 'Adapted Lenses' started by Cruzan80, Nov 20, 2012.

  1. Cruzan80

    Cruzan80 Mu-43 All-Pro

    Aug 23, 2012
    Denver, Co
    Sean Rastsmith
    Found several threads with various levels of information, and wanted to start one consolidated one, as it seem there is conflicting information.

    This is a Dandelion Chip so we all know what we are talking about.

    Has anyone used one? Installed one? How well does it work? Do you program the lens information on the screen of the camera, or somehow connect it to your computer? Can you program multiple lenses, or just one per chip at a time? How hard is it to install on an adapter?

    Seems like it would be a great idea if it works well. If it is too much of a pain, maybe not worth the aggravation. Please let us know if you are talking hypothetically or actual experience in your post, so as to diminish opposing information.
     
  2. LeoS

    LeoS Mu-43 Top Veteran

    517
    Aug 6, 2012
    What is the benefit of AF confirmation on MF lens?
    EXIF data?

    Sorry, not an MF user here... the only one I use is a rokinon 7.5 fisheye on a GX1.
     
  3. rdo

    rdo Mu-43 Rookie

    15
    Aug 26, 2012
    When you configure the camera to shoot only when it has the focus locked, then your lens will work like automatic focus lens, but with manual motor :smile:

    This is how i imagine it to work, and that is why i ordered mine yesterday. Unfortunately i don't see anyone here being happy from such chip, but i decided the price is not so bad and it is worth the risk.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  4. Cruzan80

    Cruzan80 Mu-43 All-Pro

    Aug 23, 2012
    Denver, Co
    Sean Rastsmith
    I am mainly wanting EXIF data imbedded, so I don't have to remember what shots came from what lenses. Focus locking would be nice, but not necessary for me.
     
  5. MajorMagee

    MajorMagee Mu-43 All-Pro

    Feb 24, 2011
    Dayton, OH
    I'm surprised they don't offer a pre-installed version for some of the more popular adapters.

    Programming also looks to be a bit of a pain too. Taking a minute to reprogram it every time you change focal length or aperture is not very practical, but evidently it's important to get the metering and IS right.
     
  6. meyerweb

    meyerweb Mu-43 Hall of Famer

    Sep 5, 2011
    The description says "Lastly, the most important advantage of this new version is the ability to change settings of AF emulator chip using the Camera itself. See programming instructions. "
     
  7. API75

    API75 Mu-43 Rookie

    19
    Feb 11, 2010
    No vlunteers...

    to test it for the community :biggrin:?
     
  8. HarryS

    HarryS Mu-43 Top Veteran

    919
    Jun 23, 2012
    Midwest, USA
    I have a Dandelion chip designed for the Olympus DSLR's. My comments relate to that product only. It works, but the AF confirmation process requires one to focus very slowly to avoid overshooting the focus point. Live view mode on an E510 was faster.

    I didn't have to mount mine. I bought it from Fotodiox already glued into one of their adapters. It was on clearance, and only cost me about 10 dollars over the price of a bare adapter.

    Programming the chip to hold focal length and f-stop is a clever, but very unwieldy combination of button pressing. It's like you have to rotate a control wheel X clicks for the first digit of the f-stop and Y clicks for the second digit, meaning you have to memorize X and Y or look it up. Same for focal length, a set number of clicks for each digit of the focal length. Then you take a photo and review the EXIF to make sure you did it right as there is no feedback on the clicks. You had to count them.

    The excellent magnify mode in the PENs and EM5, plus focus peaking in the latter, make an M43 version of Dandelion (if one exists) not very useful in my opinion.

    In any case, the Dandelion on my E510 did not make manual focusing any easier so I never got into manual lenses on my DSLR like I did on my PEN, where a Dandelion is not needed because magnify mode (and peaking on the EM5) is so much faster.
     
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  9. GaryAyala

    GaryAyala Mu-43 Legend

    Jan 2, 2011
    SoCal
    If I used manual lenses, I'd get one just to check it out At $23, one doesn't have much to lose if it works differently than expectations.
     
  10. LeoS

    LeoS Mu-43 Top Veteran

    517
    Aug 6, 2012
    Thanks for the explanation.

    So the image processor of the camera is activated with this chip, and that when you rotate the focus wheels the focus box in the display will turn green (and beep) when you hit the focus in that box? That's quite interesting!

    I wonder how well does it work... do you have to half-press the shutter to activate it? Does it only 'beep and turn green' the first time you hit focus? What if you pass the focus point, then will it beep again when you turn it back?
     
  11. HarryS

    HarryS Mu-43 Top Veteran

    919
    Jun 23, 2012
    Midwest, USA
    I'm not aware of anyone seeing it work yet on an M43 body. Mine is intended for the 4/3 DSLR. The E510 uses a red LED and beep to confirm focus.

    You half press the shutter, with a legacy lens in AF mode to make it work. If you overshoot the focus point, it will not reconfirm coming back unless you redo the half press of the shutter.

    Personally, I would not buy a M43 version, even if they worked. Mounting it on an adapter with epoxy is probably a fussy job.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  12. LeoS

    LeoS Mu-43 Top Veteran

    517
    Aug 6, 2012
    Thanks a lot for sharing this :thumbup:
     
  13. FernandoBatista

    FernandoBatista Mu-43 Regular

    43
    Sep 3, 2012
    Portugal
    Dandelion chips are a great adition to MF lenses, if they’re used with a camera that works with “trap focus” correctly, unfortunately not all of them do, even DSLRs… and CDAF is nearly useless at that.

    For some background info, I’ve used dandelion chips extensively on Nikon bodies shooting birds, and also with a lot of MF lenses for general photography. I’ve some tens of thousands of shots with these chips.

    In m4/3, the CDAF system works by comparing degrees of constrast, the AF system moves until the image is focused to it’s max point of contrast and a slight bit beyond, when it passes the focus point it turns back to the sharp focused image. It does this quite fast and precisely.
    With a dandelion it would be very easy to fool this way of focusing. Let’s imagine a slightly out of focus image, as we approach the focus point but not being exactly there and turn back suddenly at any point, the camera is going to consider that point the sharpest point and allow a photo to be taken, even if the focus is nowhere near where it should have been, making it useless for trapfocus.

    I did try this already, not with a dandelion chip but with a chip from a broken 14-42, it really doesn’t work well at all.
     
  14. Cruzan80

    Cruzan80 Mu-43 All-Pro

    Aug 23, 2012
    Denver, Co
    Sean Rastsmith
    How do the chips work for capturing the exif data, and programming it? Honestly, that is what I am mainly looking for in this, as I hate having to go back in and enter it afterwards (and if I forget what lenses I had that day, it gets even worse).
     
  15. micksh

    micksh New to Mu-43

    8
    Apr 18, 2012
    San Jose, CA, US
    Forget it, AF confirmation only works with PDAF focus sensors. It can't work with CDAF. It's because CDAF needs to move lens back and forth to see where focus is the best. PDAF sensors can tell if the lens is in best focus or not immediately. That's why Dandelion chip only works on DSLRs right now.

    One guy from dpreview forum tried the product offered in OP on E-M5. AFAIK he couldn't make it work because it froze the camera. The reason he tried this was because initially E-M5 didn't provide IBIS in video mode for legacy lenses. Now with E-M5 firmware 1.5 this chip is irrelevant for m4/3.

    BTW, this is really 4/3 chip, not m4/3 chip. The description is wrong on the page OP links to. Nobody has made m4/3 Dandelion chip. This is where chip developer explains why (you don't have to translate as I explained the idea above): Ïðî îäóâàí÷èê äëÿ micro 4/3 è ïðî÷èõ áåççåðêàëîê... - OLYMPUS 4/3 club forum

    The chip from peleng8.com may theoretically work on m4/3 only to provide EXIF data. It is 4/3 chip but AFAIK middle contacts of m4/3 mount correspond to 4/3 lens contact (9 vs 11 contacts there). In practice I don't think it works even for EXIF, I've seen user report that it locks OM-D.
     
  16. SVG-HK

    SVG-HK Mu-43 Regular

    33
    Aug 15, 2012
    Hong Kong
    Valeriy
    I've recently purchased 2 Dandelion chips for my 4/3 and m4/3 cameras. Based on information from Mr. Lushnikov's (chip's developer) native web site (Russian language) Îäóâàí÷èê Canon, Olympus there two versions of chips for Olympus cameras exist at the moment, 4/3rd and m4/3rd.

    Installation itself is not a real issue but requires some simple skills anyway. 4/3ds version for DSLR cameras (mine is E-5) works very well in terms of focus lock/confirmation, though one have to programm chip each time when change either lens (another option is to have a separate adapter with chip for each legacy MF lens) or aperture for capturing EXIF data and allow correct performance of a camera IS.
    As my priority was to get AF confirmation assistance with legacy MF lenses I was pretty satisfied with this purchase.

    However, it was completely different story with Dandelion chip m4/3rd version. Micksh already mentioned that the chip froze ones camers and indeed it did the same with my E-M5. It matched better with my daughter's E-PL2, but it was useless to assist me with AF confirmation lock for m4/3rd Contrast AF. Looked like it was not on a par with CAF logic at all. Later I've found discussion related to this issue on a Russian Oly forum Ôîðóì ïîëüçîâàòåëåé ÖÔÊ Olympus -> Îäóâàí÷èê äëÿ Micro Four Thirds where one guy with a knowledge in the problem confirmed that Dandelion chip m4/3rd version was unable to provide focus assistance at all and could be used for EXIF data only on any m4/3 camera. With E-M5 exception, based on my experience.

    Hope it will help anyone who thinks to try Dandelion chip himself.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  17. Promit

    Promit Mu-43 All-Pro

    Jun 6, 2011
    Baltimore, MD
    Promit Roy
    AF confirm is only for PDAF cameras, you won't get it from a m4/3 camera no matter what the adapter description says. Especially since the description is obviously copied from a Canon EF version of the chip.
     
  18. SVG-HK

    SVG-HK Mu-43 Regular

    33
    Aug 15, 2012
    Hong Kong
    Valeriy
    Thank you Promit. That what I said in my lengthy response to the topic :)
     
  19. Promit

    Promit Mu-43 All-Pro

    Jun 6, 2011
    Baltimore, MD
    Promit Roy
    Yeah, I missed the whole second page somehow.
     
  20. HarryS

    HarryS Mu-43 Top Veteran

    919
    Jun 23, 2012
    Midwest, USA
    OK, now you know it won't work at all on an EM5 and only the EXIF works on the rest. May not work on an EPL1 either as you need a control wheel.

    I am using the 4/3 chip, but have looked at the instructions and the M4/3 version programs about the same way. By the way, the instructions are awful.

    My call is it will take some practice, maybe an hour, to learn the program process well enough to execute in the field from memory. Counting a step as either a button press or a spin of the control wheel, it takes nine steps for an f-stop and fifteen steps for focal length.

    Should take less than a half minute to enter either. However, it's a blind process with no feedback. Not something easily done if you're doing an event.