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Cyclop M1 85mm ƒ1.2 protruding rear element version: adaptation tips?

Discussion in 'Adapted Lenses' started by ex machina, Jul 8, 2018.

  1. ex machina

    ex machina Mu-43 All-Pro Subscribing Member

    Jan 3, 2014
    Baltimore, MD
    I picked up a working Cyclop M10A Russian-made night vision scope with a Cyclop 85mm ƒ1.2 lens at a flea market for $45, hoping I could adapt the aperture-less but super fast lens.

    Unfortunately this earlier version has a protruding rear element that extends too far through my m42>m43 adaptor to mount. I can add m42 extension tubes, but the lens really doesn't lend itself to macro work. Removing the rear element lets me take photos w/o extension tubes but closest focus is somewhere short of infinity, but that's not super useful, either. ;) 

    I've not had much luck thus far Googling, anyone ever run across info on adapting these protruding versions to m43?

    IMG_7853.JPG
    344    iPhone 7 back camera 3.99mm f/1.8    4mm    f/1.8    1/15s    ISO 400


    IMG_7854.JPG
    344    iPhone 7 back camera 3.99mm f/1.8    4mm    f/1.8    1/30s    ISO 50


    IMG_7851.JPG
    344    iPhone 7 back camera 3.99mm f/1.8    4mm    f/1.8    1/30s    ISO 160


    IMG_7852.JPG
    344    iPhone 7 back camera 3.99mm f/1.8    4mm    f/1.8    1/15s    ISO 320
     
    Last edited: Jul 21, 2018
  2. gnarlydog australia

    gnarlydog australia Mu-43 Hall of Famer Subscribing Member

    Feb 23, 2015
    Brisbane, Australia
    Damiano Visocnik
    Can you establish what is the back-focus on that lens? if you freelens can you get infinity?
    If you can then maybe something can be done.

    What is the rear diameter of the lens? if less than 40mm then it could fit inside a short M42 helicoid and allow focusing
    If more than 40mm than maybe a M52 helicoid could accommodate such lens?
     
  3. ex machina

    ex machina Mu-43 All-Pro Subscribing Member

    Jan 3, 2014
    Baltimore, MD
    A few more showing the protrusion of the rear element.

    Lens separated from the light amplifier
    IMG_7855.JPG

    Rear element removed IMG_7856.JPG IMG_7858.JPG

    With rear element reattached, protruding through the m42 adaptor IMG_7859.JPG

    Using an m42 20mm extension tube + m42>m43 adaptor
    P4860681.
    DMC-GX7    ---       f/1.0    1/125s    ISO 640
     
    Last edited: Jul 8, 2018
  4. gnarlydog australia

    gnarlydog australia Mu-43 Hall of Famer Subscribing Member

    Feb 23, 2015
    Brisbane, Australia
    Damiano Visocnik
    so, can you get infinity from the configuration shown in the last image?
    If not, then you have no chance to mount that lens in the configuration shown.

    I suspect the lens has been adapted from its "photographic configuration" and had elements added to the rear to be able to focus on the pupil of the viewer's eye?
    Maybe pulling apart and removing some glass elements from the lens might give a further focusing distance and allow it to be mounted to a camera and get infinity?
    How does your lens compare to this optical scheme of the Helios-40? Google Image Result for http://www.bobatkins.com/photography/reviews/Helios_40-2/helios-40-formula.gif
     
  5. ex machina

    ex machina Mu-43 All-Pro Subscribing Member

    Jan 3, 2014
    Baltimore, MD
    Hmm, I'll have to try to freelens and see what happens.

    The lens itself has a helicoid, purportedly based on the Helios 40. Just saw your most recent post come through so I'll end here and review.
     
  6. ex machina

    ex machina Mu-43 All-Pro Subscribing Member

    Jan 3, 2014
    Baltimore, MD
    In that configuration the protrusion prevents mounting unless I add an extension tube.

    I suspect you are right. I guess I'd have to pull apart the lens to be sure, but one very obvious difference is the distance of the rear element from the rest of the group.

    A correction from my first post after a review of the test images -- removing the rear element allows me to get something short of infinity focus, such as it is, "is" being not terribly sharp.
     
    Last edited: Jul 9, 2018
  7. Petrochemist

    Petrochemist Mu-43 All-Pro

    Mar 21, 2013
    N Essex, UK
    Mike
    So it can't reach infinity focus with the rear element removed?
    If it's not too far out it might be possible to mount the lens closer to the sensor than a standard M42 adapter allows & so regain infinity focus. of course it may be soft without the rear element anyway...

    Somewhat more difficult is to arrange some sort of relay lens arrangement - not sure where to start with that option!

    even with the mounting issues it looks an interesting lens that I'd pay $50 for :) 
     
  8. ex machina

    ex machina Mu-43 All-Pro Subscribing Member

    Jan 3, 2014
    Baltimore, MD
    My current thought is to saw off the rear barrel up to the threads and move the rear element closer to the rest of the optics. No idea if that'll result in a useful lens, though, and it does work nicely for it's intended purpose, and additionally provides a workout holding this heavy as a tank thing to your eye. ;) 
     
  9. Petrochemist

    Petrochemist Mu-43 All-Pro

    Mar 21, 2013
    N Essex, UK
    Mike
    Moving the rear element forward will affect the lens drastically - probably making the whole lot unusable.
     
  10. ADemuth

    ADemuth Mu-43 Veteran

    268
    Jan 27, 2017
    Koror, Palau
    What was the verdict on free lensing? If you can free lens to infinity, an adaptor *may* be able to be 3D printed (though I worry about the strength of the printed bayonet mount if the lens weighs what you say it does - a problem that could have a fairly simple workaround)

    I won't have access to my 3D printer for 6 months, else I'd be asking for measurements and have something halfway knocked out by now for ya - I wanna see this thing work :) 
     
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  11. tkbslc

    tkbslc Super Moderator

    This is the first I've heard of this lens, but a quick google hunt shows that there may be two versions of this. One that looks like yours, and another that can be used normally as an m42 lens.
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  12. ex machina

    ex machina Mu-43 All-Pro Subscribing Member

    Jan 3, 2014
    Baltimore, MD
    Thanks! Haven't had the time to try freelensing yet but don't have high hopes. Will def try it and report back, though.
     
  13. ex machina

    ex machina Mu-43 All-Pro Subscribing Member

    Jan 3, 2014
    Baltimore, MD
    Yes, apparently generations newer than this one are easily adaptable. There's a sale listing on eBay that suggests that the protrusion model might be adaptable to NEX cameras but I haven't looked into whether that might or might not be the case.
     
  14. ex machina

    ex machina Mu-43 All-Pro Subscribing Member

    Jan 3, 2014
    Baltimore, MD
    Mathieu Stern states in the comments on his video of the ƒ1.5 version of this lens that he has successively adapted a protruding version to work with his full frame camera with "small modifications" -- I'm hoping he'll respond to my request for details:

     
    Last edited: Jul 9, 2018
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  15. ex machina

    ex machina Mu-43 All-Pro Subscribing Member

    Jan 3, 2014
    Baltimore, MD
    There's an Italian Canon camera club forum where someone reviewed the lens with a sawn shank, but it's behind a login and I'm not sure their registration's email confirmation system is working...
     
    Last edited: Jul 10, 2018
  16. Petrochemist

    Petrochemist Mu-43 All-Pro

    Mar 21, 2013
    N Essex, UK
    Mike
    I've probably signed up to half a dozen forums to gain access to something like that, only to find registration involved a long wait till a moderator reviewed my application - so I'd forgotten the reason by the time i could read it:rolleyes: 
    I'd find it even more annoying if the info was in Italian, or any other language I'm not fluent in...
     
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  17. zioroby6

    zioroby6 Mu-43 Rookie

    11
    Jul 11, 2018
    Italy
    Hey, I'm a newbie both here in the forum and in photography, but I was curious about this lens you got and I read that you are trying to adapt it. I'm Italian and I managed to easily login with my Google account there in Canon Italia forum, maybe you might give a try if you have one. In case you manage to login and need help translating from Italian to English just let me know! Otherwise, if you can't login at all I could paste here all the "tutorial" ;) 
     
    Last edited: Jul 11, 2018
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  18. ex machina

    ex machina Mu-43 All-Pro Subscribing Member

    Jan 3, 2014
    Baltimore, MD
    Hey zioroby6, thanks for that -- didn't even occur to me to try logging in with a Google account, since I'm generally loathe to do so. I have to translate the 2nd and 3rd pages, but it looks to me like the author removed the rear element, sawed off the end in order to fit his full-frame camera, and it "just" worked for him.

    Maybe a shorter extension tube would work for me -- actually, I don't think I tried using any of my extension tubes w/o the rear element attached, that might be the ticket.

    Thanks again!
     
  19. zioroby6

    zioroby6 Mu-43 Rookie

    11
    Jul 11, 2018
    Italy
    Yeah, you're right, he completely cut the mount where the small rear element is attached to make it fit to the M42- adapter. I don't have any specific knowledge, so I can't give any suggestion to help you... I just hope you manage to adapt it successfully :) 

    Edit: Oh, by the way, at page 2 and 3 there is nothing useful...
     
    Last edited: Jul 12, 2018
    • Appreciate Appreciate x 1
  20. ex machina

    ex machina Mu-43 All-Pro Subscribing Member

    Jan 3, 2014
    Baltimore, MD
    Some test shots with the lens on an m42 adaptor + 7mm extension tube with the rear element remaining attached. The 7mm tube allows the protrusion to just fit w/o banging into the interior of my GX7. Certainly not a sharp lens and super tough to nail focus at ƒ1.2. Might try adding some paper apertures just for grins.

    P4860697.
    DMC-GX7    ---       f/1.0    1/125s    ISO 2000
    P4860701.
    DMC-GX7    ---       f/1.0    1/125s    ISO 3200
    P4860703.
    DMC-GX7    ---       f/1.0    1/40s    ISO 3200
    P4860716.
    DMC-GX7    ---       f/1.0    1/125s    ISO 200
    P4860726.
    DMC-GX7    ---       f/1.0    1/30s    ISO 3200
     

    Attached Files:

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