Cross-System (Panasonic Leica, Fuji, Canon, Nikon) 85mm Equivalent Lens Performance Comparison

Thanks for doing this Amin, should really help a bunch of people out. I think if the 45f1.8 was tossed in there people would really have to think if the 1.2 is really worth the price because to me, what this test shows is that
a. the lens is very sharp wide open
b. bokeh still isn't on the level of a fullframe system and IMO only slightly better than the 1.8 Oly

I think that the lens is built beautifully and obviously has great image quality, but how much better is it than the oly 45? IMO, not enough, but that's okay since it is a specialty lens. The Canon 85f1.8 that you were using is performing well, is the 85f1.2 really worth another $1500? It's all a give and take and I know it's been said numerous times before, but the kit lens gets you 80% there, the 45f1.8 will get you 95% there (IMO), how much are you willing to pay for perfection?

 

duke, Amin specifically asked that another thread is used to talk about price/value proposition. I second your idea of 45 1.8 for purely quality comparison, but we should all respect Amin's point about this thread NOT turning into yet another price/value discussion!

 

Sorry about the price thing, guess I didn't see that. I guess I have lower standards Joe The WB on the nikon shots seems off to me, but I would totally use any of those shots and don't think they would need much done to them. I also disagree with the statement that the Nocticron bokeh is better in some way. Not trying to bash the lens in any way, like I said, I think the lens is great for the system, it's sharp and constructed better than any other m43 lens IMO. However, if the lens is f1.2 that says to me that they are marketing this at the folks who are looking for the shallowest DOF possible, and it just doesn't deliver. Again, it's a good lens, possibly even great, but it falls short on the most noticeable factor, the amount of bokeh. Sure as photographers we can analyze tiny details, but what does 98% of the population care if at 200% the bokeh is a little less pure or however you want to define it. What people notice immediately is the isolation, what f1.2 implies is isolation, what the lens delivers, is good quality, but not out of this world isolation, which is to be expected vs FF glass, but still dissapointing.

Also, once the subject is closer to the camera most differences between bokeh basically disappear IMO, and in those shots I would agree that the PL42.5 is the winner. I just think that the shallow DOF is what most people will prefer and when the pl42.5 is closer to infinity it just doesn't deliver the same shallowness as the other systems.

Again, I think it is a good lens, bought one of the $1300 ones from unique and used it a bit before deciding that I just couldn't justify it. There are certainly people who can and for them kudos, but I think the majority (overwhelmingly) will be perfectly fine with the 1.8.

 

I am not sure that I actually agree with your argument at all. Anyone who buys a Nocticron knows full well that it falls short in terms of the 'amount' of bokeh against 1.2 on APS-C or 1.8 on FF. It is a simple statement of physics. Really if you think it is 'disappointing' that the Nocticron doesnt produce as shallow DOF as the other lenses then you have simply set your expectations wrong.

 

This is true. If one wants the shallow DOF of a full-frame 85, then one has to use a full-frame 85. There's no way of getting around that. Physics requires it. But this is the perpetual comparison of one format vs. another format. They are in fact different. Fortunately each format has its usefulness and its appeal.

 

Physics and test reviews aside, I cannot consistently get good sharp images with the Canon 85/1.2L II on my 5D II. But I can consistently get sharp images wide open with my Nocticron, with amazing bokeh/OOF rendering, like these sample images. So, between the 5D II + 85/1.2L II and the E-M1 + Nocticron … I would take the E-M1 + Nocticron any day. In my books, the Nocticron beats both the Canon 85/1.2L II and 85/1.8 lenses - hands down. I am speaking from experience, having used the 5D II + 85/1.2L II for many years. The Nocticron is worth every penny … to me.

 

Agree with this wholeheartedly and that's one of the main reasons I keep coming back to m43, the accuracy. Sure some systems might be slightly faster, but none are nearly as accurate IMO.

Sorry if it seems I'm ranting, it's late, been drinking

I like the lens, I think it's great for our system, It's obviously superior at 1.2 to the FF lenses at 1.8, I guess I just don't understand the main point of the comparison, especially if no one wants to talk about DOF or cost vs performance (the main factors to think about when considering the lens IMO)...

 

Great shots BobbyTan!

 

The Nocticron looks good. If I could allot the budget for one, I'd buy it.

 

A bit iff topic, but that flower and bee shot is just breathtaking!! WOW.

Also, I must agree about the problem of focus accuracy on the 5dii - it's just rubbish. Give me an E -M5 or such like any day.

 

The comparisons are great!
This could be the beginning of a new series: "Format Comparisons"!
I would also be interested in normal zoom comparisons (e.g. Olympus 12-40 f2.8 vs. Panasonic 12-35 f2.8 vs. Nikon 24-70 f2.8 vs. Canon 24-70 f2.8).
This would really give a great idea of trade-offs between systems (size/weight, image quality, DOF, bokeh, price, etc.).


@Amin:
Do you still have the CV Nokton to compare against the PL Nocticron? I'm especially interested in bokeh differences as it is already a well known fact that the PL is sharper than the CV, but the CV has lots of character

 

IMO the Nikon looks the best with rendering and separation except for the CA with the Fuji and PL in 2nd since the 56mm has more pop and the PL is sharper.

 

Thank you! Clearly there are many people who see the value of an ultra-fast lens. It's like the old debate on the Canon 85/1.2 vs 85/1.8. In spite of the naysayers the 85/1.2L sold well and the Mark II version continues to sell well albeit not in the same numbers obviously, as this is a specialty lens. I never did like the 85/1.8 lens that I had a long time ago, before switching to the 85L and then to the 85L II. Well, the Nocticron IMO is better than all the 3 Canon lenses. The 85L/85L II are both excellent when it comes to isolating the background. Better than the Nocticron. My problem was achieving consistent focus/sharpness wide open, partly because the DOF was just way too shallow, and partly because of front/back focussing problems with the 5D Mk II. I understand this is less of a problem with the 5D Mk III because of the better AF system but the front/back focussing problem is still there. It's just the nature of the DSLR beast. MFT does not have these problems. And besides, the Nocticron is sharp in the corners wide open, and controls distortion and CA significantly better than the Canon. Heck, if I am still shooting DSLR I would be seriously tempted to get the E-M1 and a couple of lenses … namely the Nocticron for portrait work and the 300/4 for birding and wildlife. Lenses like these are the reasons why I have not been tempted to switch to the Sony A7r.

 

Accurate AF at very wide apertures (1.2, 1.4) is a weakness of DSLRs. It has required some overshooting to assure focus. However, Canon improved their AF system in the 5D3 and 1DX so it's less of a problem with these newer cameras. I've noticed considerably improved accuracy with the 5D3 — still not perfect, but the hit rate is definitely better. (It depends on the lens too; an older design like the Canon 50/1.4 is still not as accurate as a newer one.) Even so, the Nocticron has great appeal for me by virtue of being much smaller & lighter than a full-frame 85/1.2. (Carrying heavy gear all day is not fun!) If the AF at wide apertures is more accurate, that is a big bonus. It gives more confidence when shooting and lessens the need for overshooting. BTW, the bee shot is fabulous! :smile:

 

+1 +1 +1

 

Thank you … and that's exactly my point. I rarely shot at f1.2 with the Canon for that reason. Also, because of the size and weight, my 85L II stayed home most of time - unless I am doing a specific portrait shoot and know that I will need that lens. I will never go on any photo shoot without the Nocticron because it's also great for street shooting, indoor and night photography, landscape, close-up work, etc.