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Considering switching to Panasonic from Fuji

Discussion in 'Panasonic Cameras' started by bwidjaja, Sep 22, 2014.

  1. bwidjaja

    bwidjaja Mu-43 Regular

    67
    May 30, 2012
    Hi Everyone,

    Lately I have been considering moving back to micro 4/3 from a year or so enjoying the Fuji system.
    Here is the current setup that I am trying to replace:
    Fuji X-E1 + 35mm + 60mm
    Fuji X-A1 + 16-50mm

    Considering the following:
    Panasonic GX7 + 20mm + Oly 45mm
    Panasonic GM1 + 12-32mm

    My reasoning for the switch is simply the overall size of the system, especially with the portrait lenses. APS-C is a larger sensor, the physics of the lenses just do not allow for native Fuji lenses to be as small as m4/3 offerings.
    If IQ is the ultimate goal, I think I will stick with Fuji although the gap is not that big. In fact for my purpose, it's probably a wash.

    Price aside (it is going to cost me more getting Panny stuff), what advantages or disadvantages should i think about?
    At this point, I am guessing that GX7 ergonomics should be great esp with the tilt screen. And GM1 is considered as a second body for the small size. I will adapt to the ergo as I did for the Fuji X-A1.
     
  2. Jonathan F/2

    Jonathan F/2 Mu-43 Hall of Famer

    Aug 10, 2011
    Los Angeles, CA
    Any reason you're not considering Olympus as well?
     
  3. tosvus

    tosvus Mu-43 Top Veteran

    632
    Jan 4, 2014
    I think you have a good combination suggested for the Panasonic stuff. Aside from the fact that it is obviously a bit more versatile, have you considered your second camera not being a interchangeable lens camera? I currently have the GH3 but will add a Panasonic LX100 as my secondary. Maybe wait a few weeks for the reviews to come out, but strictly speaking, it will give you a better/faster lens, faster AF, and 4K video recording, at a fairly similar price-point. I would personally not worry much about the lack of ability to change lenses, but I suspect for you, if you want a really compact solution, perhaps the GM1/12-32 combo will be a good bit smaller?
     
  4. bwidjaja

    bwidjaja Mu-43 Regular

    67
    May 30, 2012
    @Jonathan. So far I have not seen any comparable Olympus offering for the price point; mainly EVF (built in or external) and tilt screen. Please do correct me if I am wrong.

    @Tosvus. I was excited about the LX100. But once I try to use my rational (still surprised that happens), it does not make sense for the following reasons:
    1. Video. Not too worried about 4K at this time; so between the GM1 and GX7, i should be covered.
    2. Lens. I am mostly a prime shooter, especially in low light. Zoom is great for travel, good light, or flash shooting for kids bdays.
    3. DOF. I will still want the ability to use 20mm and 45mm. Which means still need a m4/3 body.
    The LX100 is a beautiful and capable camera. However, at this point, i would rather save the extra dollar for another lens. Maybe I will reconsider the next generation.
     
  5. gryphon1911

    gryphon1911 Mu-43 Hall of Famer

    Mar 13, 2014
    Central Ohio, USA
    Andrew
    Hi ISO on the Fuji is going to be better overall.

    The m43 gear will give you smaller lenses, more useable wide open shooting options. Better/faster AF performance and better video performance if you are into that sort of thing.

    The other thing to remember is that there is going to be a learning curve, just like any other new camera system. How it shoots, how to set it up, getting used to the fact that you can shoot m43 primes wide open. Post processing is going to be different - the whole nine.
     
  6. bwidjaja

    bwidjaja Mu-43 Regular

    67
    May 30, 2012
    @Gryphon, High ISO is what I was a little concerned with. Any idea how many stops we are talking about? Especially between GX7 and X-E1.
    Btw, I did come from Panasonic / Olympus m43 before coming to Fuji. So, the only thing i have to relearn is mostly with the post processing regimen. The menu system should not be too hard to get used to I assume.
     
  7. tosvus

    tosvus Mu-43 Top Veteran

    632
    Jan 4, 2014
    I was thinking just to replace the GM5, and still have a gx7 with primes :) That said, on wide setting the LX100 is fast, at f1.7 (I only have two lenses faster than that for m43, the Nocticron and the PL 25 1.4). That said, you will know best what is most important to you :)

     
  8. pcnyc

    pcnyc Mu-43 Regular

    198
    Sep 15, 2010
    GX7 is still the only panny interchangeable body that has IBIS for the primes you are thinking about using. I would have jumped on the GM5 but they took out the IBIS.

    GX7 has better video and faster AF than x-e1.

    I actually think size and weight of the lenses apply more to the zooms. I think most of the the fuji primes are sized not too far off m43 ones, but are heavier because fuji puts more metal into them. I use 14-140mm II with my GX7 and I imaging if there is a zuperzoom on the fuji it's gonna look and feel a lot like the sony NEX offerings which are kinda huge.
     
  9. broody

    broody Mu-43 Veteran

    388
    Sep 8, 2013
    Good news is that the GX7 has one of the best AF systems for low light, which should have you covered along with the IBIS.

    Both are terrific systems, but of course you gain excellent AF performance, very small lenses and great video on M43.
     
  10. bwidjaja

    bwidjaja Mu-43 Regular

    67
    May 30, 2012
    @tosvus, thanks for the reminder of the lens. you really got me thinking. LX100 size is perfect and in fact i think the GM is a tad too small for my taste, but as a second body, i will adapt. I suppose I got hung up on the price tag. But if that means I can avoid the Panny 20mm, the LX100 is actually a better value than going with GM1 kit plus 20mm.

    @pcnyc, thanks for the respond. You are probably right about the relative sizes. Although so far there is no equivalent offering on the fuji side for the following: Panny 12-32 pancake, Panny 20mm, Oly 45mm (esp the fast focusing) , Oly 75mm (the rumored XF 90mm will be quite a bit bigger i believe).
     
  11. alex66

    alex66 Mu-43 Top Veteran

    715
    Jul 23, 2010
    Body wise I would consider the OLy EM10 not sure if its a fixed screen though but it has a good built in IS for the primes, I would also consider the 25mm's and the Oly 17 1.7 as options over the 20mm the 12-32 is a little cracker though, love mine. You could consider if you get the EM10 is to get an EPL5 or 7 or an EPM2 as a walk around camera this will also give you the advantage of the same batteries for all the bodies so if travelling and you take a lot of photographs you can charge 2 at once. IQ wise I think all the 16mp bodies are good, so you could really pick the one that feels the nicest to you, also if you want a small wide angle the 14mm is good and cheep.
     
  12. DMLarson

    DMLarson Mu-43 Regular

    79
    Aug 19, 2014
    Dan
    I have the EM10 and GX7. They are almost exactly the same weight, but the EM10 is smaller in dimensions. They both have EVF's, IBIS, and tilting screens. The EVF on the EM10 is bigger and easier for me to see with my glasses. I really like the grip on the GX7. The GX7 also has an electronic shutter which might be a feature you'd like. Batteries last longer for me with the EM10. Both are great cameras, get your hands on each and try them if you can.
     
  13. gryphon1911

    gryphon1911 Mu-43 Hall of Famer

    Mar 13, 2014
    Central Ohio, USA
    Andrew
    If you want to see for yourself the high ISO stuff, then I would recommend going HERE and giving them a look for yourself.

    I judge high ISO in a subjective way and maybe a little different than others do. I've no problems using a Nikon Df or D700 image taken at 6400 or 12800, do a little post and there is your color version. Fuji I could deal with up to and just below ISO 6400, where as I only liked the color images from the m43 at 2500 or less.

    That is just me, though and I would not take what I do as a serious thing for what you do....at least not the hard and fast numbers.
     
  14. ijm5012

    ijm5012 Mu-43 Hall of Famer

    Oct 2, 2013
    Pittsburgh, PA
    Ian
    Unless you plan on shooting a lot of really good quality video (which I'm guessing you're not, since you're coming from Fuji), I would really suggest taking a look at the Olympus E-M10 over the GX7, and look at the Olympus 17mm 1.8 over the 20mm 1.7 from Panasonic.

    My reason for suggesting the E-M10 over the GX7 is that with the E-M10, you get a MUCH larger viewfinder (the EVF in the GX7 is a native 16:9 aspect, and becomes quite small when cropped to a 4:3 aspect), and a far superior image stabilization system. Olympus IBIS works wonders with unstabilized prime lenses, and when shooting with something as long as the 45/1.8, it really comes in handy (yes, the GX7 has IBIS as well, but it is a 2-axis system where the E-M10 features a far superior 3-axis system). Yes, there is no silent mode on the E-M10, but you can simply turn the "beeping" sound off for when focus lock is achieved, and the shutter on the E-M10 is WORLDS quieter than the shutter on the GX7. Also, if you find the grip of the E-M10 insufficient, you can always purchase the add-on grip which makes handling the camera easier.

    As for the lenses, if you plan to shoot in lower light conditions (which is sounds like you do, since you have concerns over high ISO), I believe that you'll find the 20/1.7 lacking in terms of AF speed. It will hunt more in low light, and take longer to lock focus when compared to the 17/1.8 from Olympus. I owned a 20/1.7, and sold it to purchase a 17/1.8 because the AF was so much faster in both good light and low light. Also, the lack of sharpness you read about for the 17/1.8 isn't as big of an issue as people make it out to be, I have no trouble getting sharp images out of my 17/1.8.
     
  15. shepx13

    shepx13 Mu-43 Regular

    196
    Aug 7, 2012
    Tyler, TX
    Ken
    As someone who bought an xt1 with the intent of moving over to Fuji completely, and ended up sending it back within 30 days, the AF alone is reason to choose m4/3. The xt1 focus is painfully slow in comparison with the em1 or gx7. And since I've read the xe and xa fujis are even worse as far as AF, it would be an even bigger disparity.
     
  16. bwidjaja

    bwidjaja Mu-43 Regular

    67
    May 30, 2012
    @alex66 and @ijm5012; thanks for pointing out the advantages of EM10. I am surprised that the more I look into it, the more I am liking the specs, etc. Complete surprise. EM10 + 25mm + 45mm should be a hell of a combo. I guess I can still get the 12-32 to round it out. And the same batteries with EPMx is actually a very valid point to me.

    @ shepx13; I have given up on the fast AF quest. Sure m4/3 is much faster than Fuji, but as soon as I go down that path, I am usually always disappointed one way or another. I think anticipation and pre-visualization work better for me at least. So I would rather evaluate based on other criteria than fast AF alone.
     
  17. Geemone

    Geemone Mu-43 Regular

    64
    Aug 9, 2014
    Germany
    Funny that you are writing that, because I had to make a similar decision just a short while ago... .

    Having been working with M4/3 for a few years (GH2, GF1) I sold most of my gear to switch to Fuji X (X Pro 1, 14, 35, 18-55) because I was fascinated by both the build quality of the Fuji X cameras and lenses and their image quality.

    At the same time, I kept one of my Panasonic lenses, namely the 100-300 to cover the longer focal range for some wildlife photography. For that purpose I bought me a GM1 body. Because of its tiny size I was immediately hooked by that camera and added a 14/2.5 to use it as a compact setup for everyday use.
    An Olympus 45/1.8 and Samyang 7.5mm Fisheye followed and I soon noticed, that I used the GM1 more than my Fuji... .
    Except for the 100-300, my complete M4/3 gear including assesories fits in a very small bag that I can take with me where ever I go or just put it in a backpack or other travelling case without carrying an extra big camera bag .
    On the other hand, the Fuji plus lenses, etc. needed much more room and it reminded me a little of my old DSLR outfit I was lugging around years ago... :crying:

    To make a long story short, I recently decided to sell all my Fuji X gear and get a second GM1 body. And what shall I say, I haven't regretted that decision yet.

    As soon as the GM5 will ba available, I will replace one of my GM1 bodies with it to have one with an EVF.

    The small size and light weight of the M4/3 lenses and the GM bodies are a big benefit in my eyes and let me forget the slightly superior size of the APS-C sensor and BQ of the Fujis.
    Also, the much faster AF and great video quality of the GM1 are a pleasure to work with. Not to forget the large range of available lenses. :thumbup:
     
    • Like Like x 1
  18. dcbrookes

    dcbrookes Mu-43 Rookie

    11
    Sep 24, 2010
    Herefordshire, UK
    I am surprised that no-one has suggested a second-hand E-M5. I bought a mint body recently from a top UK dealer. It had fewer than 500 shutter actuations, cost less than a third of the new price just two years ago and came with a three-month warranty. I am not alone - Kirk Tuck of the Visual Science Lab has recently been extolling the merits of second-hand EM-5's.
     
  19. Geemone

    Geemone Mu-43 Regular

    64
    Aug 9, 2014
    Germany
    I have never liked the looks and feel of the Olympus cameras. Panasonic rules (for me...) :2thumbs:
     
  20. Bif

    Bif Mu-43 Veteran

    380
    May 28, 2012
    San Angelo TX
    Bruce Foreman
    I wouldn't be too much concerned with high ISO performance on the GX7 (I have no experience with the GM1 or the Fuji system. I routinely shoot at 1600 and 3200 with my GX7, and with my pair of GH3s. And, if need be, I'll use 6400 and just try to get enough exposure so noise isn't enough of a problem to bother me.

    The real key with low light work (to me, anyway) is "fast glass" and utilizing what light there is to best advantage. With the Lumix 20mm f1.7 and the Oly 45mm f1.8 (I have both of those) you kind of have most situations covered. I also have the Pan/Leica 25mm f1.4 but still use the Lumix 20mm a lot.

    For the second body, even though you have the small GM1 in mind, you might consider a "lightly used" GH3. Those are now going for some attractive prices, I've seen several around $700 with low shutter counts.

    The GH3 and the GX7 complement each other very well. You don't get the little "pancake" zoom with it but what I did was go looking for used Lumix 14-45 "kit" zooms (the older version with metal barrel instead of polymer, I've got two of them and they see a fair amount of use being pretty good lenses with smooth zoom movement. Both of mine were in "like new" shape and ran about $150 each.