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Complete list of 'Rangefinder' mu-43 models

Discussion in 'This or That? (MFT only)' started by barry13, Jan 29, 2016.

  1. barry13

    barry13 Super Moderator; Photon Wrangler

    Mar 7, 2014
    Southern California
    Barry
    Can anyone provide a link to a feature comparison table, or give me a list of mu43 bodies with the following?

    Required:
    EVF integrated. Rangefinder style, no hump.

    Optional, but desired:

    At least 2 control wheels OR the above mentioned click-wheel, for ease of controlling aperture/shutter and EC
    Fast S-AF performance, even in low light (I'm very happy with the E-M1 and the 17/1.8, fwiw)
    Physical shutter, not electronic only.
    International (110-240V) charger

    focus peaking
    IBIS
    tilt screen
    B&W shooting
    WiFi
    anti-shock
    Auto-ISO in M mode
    Easy way to toggle AF points/ grid type, e.g. assigning a button to 'AF Home' on OM-D
    High ISO performance similar to E-M1

    I don't need a flash.


    So far, I've identified the Pen-F and GX7, but I'm wondering if there's anything else from Panasonic I've missed.

    I would be using it mostly as a compact travel camera, with the 17/1.8, 45/1.8, 9mm BCL, maybe a 12-32mm pancake, and some very small adapted Pentax Auto-110 lenses (24, 70mm).

    Thanks!
    Barry
     
    Last edited: Jan 30, 2016
  2. barry13

    barry13 Super Moderator; Photon Wrangler

    Mar 7, 2014
    Southern California
    Barry
    I'll put the list here as I build it based on responses...

    Olympus: Pen-F
    Panasonic: GX7, GX8, GM5, GX80/85

    Features:
    IBIS: all except GM5. 5-axis in Pen-F.
    Tilt Screen: GX7 only
    Weather Sealing: GX8 only (we need more compact sealed lenses)
    Focus Peaking: ALL
    Anti-shock: ?
    WiFi: ALL
    B&W/Monochrome: ALL
    Auto-ISO in M mode: all except GX7. Pen-F adds EC in M mode.
    16MP Sensors: GM5, GX7
    20MP Sensors: GX8, Pen-F

    Fast S-AF: ?
    GX8 has DFD and is supposed to be as fast as E-M1 for S-AF at least.

    Easy way to toggle AF points/ grid type: ?
    High ISO performance: ?

    Other notes:
    GM5
    : 7.4 oz / 211 grams
    MUCH smaller and ligher than the others.
    Much smaller VF. Fixed LCD. Has an unusual shutter that cannot exceed 1/500s; otherwise is electronic to 1/16000s. Small battery (220 rating). No in-camera image conversion (if shooting RAW only). Reduced Dynamic Range with e-shutter.

    GX7: 14.18 oz / 402 grams
    16x9 EVF gives small 4/3 view.
    IBIS does not activate during live view or half-shutter press
    No Auto-ISO in M mode. No Auto-ISO in S mode when using manual lenses!
    No minimum shutter speed setting (with auto ISO in A mode)?

    GX8: 17.2 oz / 487 grams
    Big EVF.
    have to manually switch to e-shutter to avoid shock at certain speeds?

    Pen-F: 15.1 oz / 427g (est.)
    Auto-ISO + EC in M mode
     
    Last edited: Apr 6, 2016
  3. budeny

    budeny Mu-43 All-Pro

    Mar 4, 2014
    Boulder, CO
    GM5? It has click-wheel control.
     
    • Useful Useful x 2
  4. dixeyk

    dixeyk Mu-43 Hall of Famer

    Aug 9, 2010
    • Informative Informative x 1
    • Useful Useful x 1
  5. barry13

    barry13 Super Moderator; Photon Wrangler

    Mar 7, 2014
    Southern California
    Barry
    Thanks... it looks like there are only 4 RF-style models (listed above)... any others I missed?
     
  6. phigmov

    phigmov Mu-43 Hall of Famer

    Apr 4, 2010
  7. barry13

    barry13 Super Moderator; Photon Wrangler

    Mar 7, 2014
    Southern California
    Barry
    @phigmov@phigmov, I looked at the LX100; it's attractive but I don't know how much I'd like it, and I like my lenses. Also it seems like I could get a GX7 for much less, or get a weather-sealed GX8 (of course none of my primes are sealed) for about the same price (maybe grey-market though).

    I'm going to need to see these in-person / try them in my hand before I'll be able to decide, but at the moment I'm thinking smaller is better, e.g. GX7 or GM5. I have big hands though, so we'll see.

    I'm also thinking of maybe getting the 12-32mm pancake zoom... maybe.
    This all hinges on a possible job change involving a lot of travel.

    There's a dealer in Riverside that carries mu-43; will see if they have any open.

    Thanks,
    Barry
     
  8. barry13

    barry13 Super Moderator; Photon Wrangler

    Mar 7, 2014
    Southern California
    Barry
    I've updated the info in post #2 above... I still have a few things I'm not sure about:

    Fast S-AF -
    I know the GX8 has DFD which compares well with OM-D...
    Is there much difference between the AF in the GM5 vs GX7? And how would they compare with OM-D or GX8?

    High ISO performance: are there any major differences (in noise or DR) here?

    Toggle AF points/ grid type -
    I like to switch between Center-Small and 9-point grid with an assigned button on my E-M1; is there a quick & easy way to do this on any of the Panasonics?
    I do see that the Panasonics have touch-screen-to-focus.

    Thanks!
    Barry
     
    Last edited: Jan 30, 2016
  9. barry13

    barry13 Super Moderator; Photon Wrangler

    Mar 7, 2014
    Southern California
    Barry
    Size comments:
    the Pen-F and GM5 are the almost same thickness (1.2mm difference).

    The GX7/8 have big protruding EVF eyepieces.

    I need to see how pocketable they all are, but I'm guessing the eyepieces are going to be an issue.
     
  10. Jon Li

    Jon Li Mu-43 Regular

    44
    Jan 15, 2014
    Jakarta - Indonesia
    I find DfD of GX8 is very good for panning shoots n with 4K Photo features , action photography is covered iff one does not mind 8 mpx JPEG file .
     
    • Like Like x 1
  11. listers_nz

    listers_nz Mu-43 Veteran

    255
    Nov 22, 2013
    Christchurch, New Zealand
    Simon
    Panasonic call this AF Mode. You can assign a function button to bring up the AF mode selection menu (although not a lot of point as the left button of the 4 way controller already does this), but you then still have to pick the mode from there. I can't see a way to toggle between AF modes with one button, although you might be able to set up the custom settings with one set for each mode, and then just change the mode dial between say C1 and C2, but I haven't tried it.
     
    • Appreciate Appreciate x 1
  12. Mattyh

    Mattyh Mu-43 Regular

    65
    Dec 14, 2013
    UK
    Size matters, but not as much as performance, also don't discount the LX100 as its as good as the GX8 with a superb lens already attached.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  13. yendikeno

    yendikeno Mu-43 Regular

    128
    Sep 5, 2015
    Yes, the GX7 eyepiece does protrude, so might be an issue. One nice thing about it for me at least, is that it swivels 90degrees, so I can use is for low angle shots w/o having to lay flat to do so.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  14. budeny

    budeny Mu-43 All-Pro

    Mar 4, 2014
    Boulder, CO
    Unlike Pany, Olympus sizes are "excluding protrusions", so real world size and feel are different - especially when you account x2 weight difference.
    My guess is that PEN-F is at least as thick and heavy as E-P5.
     
    Last edited: Jan 30, 2016
  15. barry13

    barry13 Super Moderator; Photon Wrangler

    Mar 7, 2014
    Southern California
    Barry
    Hmm... I've been looking at pictures and comparator tools online...
    The Pen-F is apparently slightly taller and wider than the GX7:
    Real PEN F size vs GX7 and GX8 -- overlays: Micro Four Thirds Talk Forum: Digital Photography Review (pics)

    The thickness is harder for me to judge, but it looks like they're about the same depth except for the grip (don't care), and the eyepiece (pocketability issue?)
    I probably would add a grip (or maybe a half-case?) if I got the Pen-F, but I'd not want one with a base plate.

    Compare camera dimensions side by side
    DMC-GX7 - 54.6 mm [D] 122.6 mm [W]
    472-3-1.

    654-3-1.
    Olympus PEN-F - 37.3 mm [D] 124.8 mm [W]


    I went to Costco today and saw a Lumix which I thought was a GM5 but it turned out to be a ZS40 P&S with an EVF. It's actually about 10% larger (H & W) than the GM5!
    upload_2016-1-30_16-28-4.
    It felt OK but a little dinky (in size, not quality) in my hands; I'd probably be happier with something bigger.

    I haven't found anywhere stocking the GM5 yet, nor the GX7 (I know it's discontinued). Both seem to be $220-350 used, and there's new GM5's from Adorama (on eBay) for $470 with the 12-32 (which I'd want).

    Thanks,
    Barry
     
    Last edited: Jan 30, 2016
  16. barry13

    barry13 Super Moderator; Photon Wrangler

    Mar 7, 2014
    Southern California
    Barry
    I called a local mu-43 dealer (Image One in Riverside) but they don't have either the GM5 or GX7 in-store (and the person I spoke to didn't know when the Pen-F will arrive).

    Hopefully I can find them somewhere I can try them in-hand, but right now I'm leaning towards a used GX7 or waiting for the Pen-F to come down.

    GX7 advantages (imho):
    tilt-screen
    cheap (used)

    Pen-F advantages (imho):
    shared battery with my E-M1 (BLN-1)
    faster S-AF?
    EC & Auto-ISO in M mode (GX7 has neither)

    Does anyone see any real disadvantage with the GX7? My biggest concerns would probably be S-AF performance and usability of Focus Peaking.

    Thanks,
    Barry
     
  17. budeny

    budeny Mu-43 All-Pro

    Mar 4, 2014
    Boulder, CO
    Well, I have GM5 and EM1 and my caliper says that GM5 listed thickness is from mount flange to EVF eye cup.
    For EM1 it's clear that Olympus excluded EVF eye cup part.

    v
     
    • Appreciate Appreciate x 1
  18. yendikeno

    yendikeno Mu-43 Regular

    128
    Sep 5, 2015
    I haven't used my GX7 much, as my primary m43 is the E-M1, but I don't recall any issues with S-AF on it. We might be close to each other, so PM me your location if you want, and if you are, you're welcome to play with my GX7.
     
    • Appreciate Appreciate x 1
  19. barry13

    barry13 Super Moderator; Photon Wrangler

    Mar 7, 2014
    Southern California
    Barry
    GX80/85 added.