Comparing UWA lens of M4/3 with standard lens of FF

abhisheks77

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Hi,

Its a novice question. I have been using Olympus E-M1 (first version) with 12-40mm f/2.8 for a few years along with 50-150mm and 45mm prime.
I have developed interest in landscape photography, though I am not going to print them. Recently I tried my friend's FF camera. It obviously covers more scene in pictures which looks impressive.

I do have the option to buy Z6+kit lens. But I want to understand, if I buy 7-14mm f/4 [14-28mm f/8] for my E-M1, will it not beat 24-70mm in covering scene in single frame? Some post says that it will cover but it will be different to our eyes. What does it mean?

Even if I add 14-30mm with Z6, E-M1 + 7-14mm f/4 will still give an equivalent image. Am I understanding it correctly technically or missing something?

Apart from ISO/low-light benefit, what other benefits we see for FF?

[Probably users who use(d) M4/3 and FF, should be able to help me here]

Thanks
 

bassman

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All FF cameras, like the Nikons, have a 3:2 aspect ratio. m43 cameras are 4:3. So while we make the approximation that m43 cameras need half the focal length to get the same field of view, it’s only an approximation. That being said, your 12-40 gives about the same angle of view on your E-M1 as a 24-80 would on the Z6. The 7-14 will show about the same angle of view as a 14-28 on the Z6. So I don’t understand your comment that “It obviously covers more scene in pictures” - why is that obvious? What lens was on the FF?
 

PakkyT

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Recently I tried my friend's FF camera. It obviously covers more scene in pictures which looks impressive.
No it doesn't, not all by itself. The field of view depends on what lens they were using. If it was a wider field of view then you can simply match it by also going wider. 4/3rds lenses on a m43 body will give you a field of view half that of FF (or put another way, a 2x zoom in compared to the FF lens). So if your friend was using a 24mm lens then you want to use 12mm.
 

PakkyT

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@bassman makes another good point that with the 3:2 aspect ratio of FF it gives the illusion of a wider frame when comparing two photos of the same field of view. You can always crop your 4/3rds photos to the same ratio.
 

abhisheks77

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I checked Z6 camera with 24-70mm f/4
If I use E-M1 + 7-14mm f/4, that's the comparison I was asking.
Will I see a clear difference, if I click pictures with above both systems from a coverage perspective)?
 

PakkyT

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The E-M1 with 7-14 will give you a wider field of view than your friend's 24-70 at most of the range. Your friend's lens is equivalent to 14-35mm on 4/3rds. And the 4/3rds 7-14 is equivalent to FF of 14-28mm. Does that help?
 

Clint

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If you use that 7-14mm lens at 12mm, then you will have a very similar view as the Z6 at 24mm.

You have several great choices for super wide angle lenses
7-14mm both Panasonic and Olympus
9-18mm Olympus
8-18mm Panasonic
10-25mm Panasonic

All of which are very capable of outstanding photos in the right hands.

Many people find that shooting at 7mm m43 is a lot harder to get outstanding images than they thought. It is not just about the field of view.
 

abhisheks77

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If you use that 7-14mm lens at 12mm, then you will have a very similar view as the Z6 at 24mm.

You have several great choices for super wide angle lenses
7-14mm both Panasonic and Olympus
9-18mm Olympus
8-18mm Panasonic
10-25mm Panasonic

All of which are very capable of outstanding photos in the right hands.

Many people find that shooting at 7mm m43 is a lot harder to get outstanding images than they thought. It is not just about the field of view.
I learned that 7-14mm on my E-M1 can still compete with 14-30mm on Nikon in view. So my friend's statement of "your M4/3 can take this much range as I can take from my FF", is wrong. But I guess, it is just wide and can't be equal vertically?
When you say, it is difficult to shot with wide-angle, why so ?
 

Danny_SWE

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When you say, it is difficult to shot with wide-angle, why so ?
I am a beginner of UWA and recently found out that, in beginning I thought it was really amazing. Wow! Almost cheating when shooting churches or stuff at close distance and you can still get it in one frame. But I found out that, even though you get it in one frame. It might look very unnatural (distorted) from a such close perspective. Composition takes more effort than on a standard WA sometimes, if you want a really good result. Be aware of subjects close to the lens, some subjects might not suffer as much as others from distortion. Like nature, I also shoot lots of nature and UWA is fantastic, you get a whole lot of the scene in the frame, it's more forgiving than architecture I think.
BTW, I started with the Samyang 7.5 fisheye but have now, at last! Got myself a rectilinear lens, Laowa 7.5. Check out showcase thread for examples:
https://www.mu-43.com/threads/laowa-7-5mm-f-2.92321/page-12#post-1407579
And whynot the showcase thread for P7-14 while we are at it :)
https://www.mu-43.com/threads/panasonic-7-14mm-f-4.295/
 
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Can be tricky. Rosa's nose was all but touching the front element of my FTs f/4 7-14. Note that her front legs are out of focus!

Subscribe to see EXIF info for this image (if available)


It is very common to see this sort of distortion in TV news reporting, in particular.
 

abhisheks77

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I understand nnatural/distortion will a topic, I will need to learn to compose it in good manner.
Is this better handled and easy to manage in 14-30mm on FF, or I need to put the effort into both systems?
I was trying to compare both lenses on dxomark, but 7-14mm is not reviewed in their system
 

Hypilein

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Generally speaking lenses with double the focal length in FF will give the same FOV (the same amount of stuff fits into the frame).

So a 7-14 will give the same image as a 14-28. This means that all problems that you get composition wise are also exactly the same.

The only difference in FF (with same FOV) will be less noise, less Depth of Field, depending on the camera more pixels. Those things generally affect the image only in details. The overall picture stays the same.

If you like the pictures you get from your mu43 but just want a different perspective, get a lens with a different focal length (like a 7-14). If you want better general image quality (and are happy to pay the price) buy a FF camera. Just remember that a larger sensor also requires larger and heavier lenses.
 
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You need to understand lenses in terms of the angle of view (AoV).

Lenses with the same, or similar, AoV will behave similarly, regardless of format or manufacturer.

Many (most) 135 format lenses are not as good as mFTs lenses. Quite simply they do not have to be, as the final image is only magnified half as much for a given output size.

Put another way, mFTs lenses have to be twice as good, because it needs to be magnified by twice as much for the same output size. Fortunately, most lenses are twice as good. More importantly, they are often far better in zone 3 (the corners, in simple terms).
 
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You can always crop your 4/3rds photos to the same ratio.
Or you can set the camera to crop for you, I believe. If the aspect ratio (height to width ratio) is what makes FF look wider to you, try setting your µ4/3rds camera to 16:9, and it will look even wider!

I've never played with this, not wanting to throw away any of the pixels, but I do recall seeing it on one of the menus on the E-M1.2.
 
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Or you can set the camera to crop for you, I believe. If the aspect ratio (height to width ratio) is what makes FF look wider to you, try setting your µ4/3rds camera to 16:9, and it will look even wider!

I've never played with this, not wanting to throw away any of the pixels, but I do recall seeing it on one of the menus on the E-M1.2.
This setting will only affect the JPG. The RAW will always be 4:3 ratio.
 

Holoholo55

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I understand nnatural/distortion will a topic, I will need to learn to compose it in good manner.
Is this better handled and easy to manage in 14-30mm on FF, or I need to put the effort into both systems?
I was trying to compare both lenses on dxomark, but 7-14mm is not reviewed in their system
This may help you to understand the angle of view for M43 lenses and equivalent Field of View. The focal length of a lens, for example 7-14, is a physical property of the lens. It does not change even if you use it on a camera with a different sensor. However, the field of view will depend on both the focal length and the size of the sensor. On the following page, the field of view (and angle of view) of M43 lenses is shown and the equivalent field of view (eFOV) with respect to a 35mm frame sensor is also shown.
https://www.four-thirds.org/en/special/lens_knowledge.html

As others have said, the 7-14 (14-28 eFOV) on your EM1 camera is going to have a much wider field of view than the 24-70 on a Z6. You have quite a few choices for ultra-wide-angle primes and zooms for M43 mount.

Here's some general info on UWA lenses. https://photographylife.com/ultra-wide-angle-lens
 

RAH

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The E-M1 with 7-14 will give you a wider field of view than your friend's 24-70 at most of the range. Your friend's lens is equivalent to 14-35mm on 4/3rds. And the 4/3rds 7-14 is equivalent to FF of 14-28mm. Does that help?
I agree with everything everyone has said about the wide-angles in question. However, are the highlighted numbers correct? Don't you mean "Your friend's lens is equivalent to 12-35"? Or perhaps you are taking into account the different aspect ratios? (much too complicated for me to get my head around; but dividing and multiplying by 2 is one of my strong points!). :)
 
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