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Colour (Color) Issues

Discussion in 'Help and Feedback' started by tubedriver, May 18, 2012.

  1. tubedriver

    tubedriver Mu-43 Regular

    138
    Mar 30, 2012
    Perth, Western Australia
    Shaun
    I am wondering if anyone can help with my problem.

    I am finding that images uploaded to my gallery on this site are considerably more colour saturated than the original from Photoshop 6.

    I have my monitor colour profiled every few weeks, but surely viewing a picture on Photoshop and then this website should return the same level of colour saturation??

    Am I missing something?
     
    • Like Like x 1
  2. Promit

    Promit Mu-43 All-Pro

    Jun 6, 2011
    Baltimore, MD
    Promit Roy
    What monitor? I suspect a wide gamut display. Been working on a detailed blog post that explains the problem and others, actually. Here is a hint: does the gallery image still look over-saturated in Firefox? I bet you're using Chrome right now...
     
    • Like Like x 2
  3. RetroBoy

    RetroBoy Mu-43 Regular

    There's a checkbox in PS under View called "proof colors".
    Above that is proof setup, where you can select your monitor profile.

    Then check proof colors to see how it will appear basically anywhere outside of PS.

    For some reason this needs to be checked every time you open a new image in PS. Drives me nuts too and yes my Dell Ultrasharp monitor is calibrated with an EyeOne Pro.
     
    • Like Like x 2
  4. Amin Sabet

    Amin Sabet Administrator

    Apr 10, 2009
    Boston, MA (USA)
    It depends on your color settings in Photoshop. If you're processing for the web (including this site), make sure you either work in or convert to sRGB and embed that ICC profile when you save the image.
     
    • Like Like x 2
  5. Promit

    Promit Mu-43 All-Pro

    Jun 6, 2011
    Baltimore, MD
    Promit Roy
    No, see I don't think that's it. In fact I bet sRGB is exactly the problem.

    See, on a wide gamut display the wider color space means that sRGB rendered naively will oversaturate badly. This is particularly visible in the reds. This is the example I have for my blog post:
    color-space.
    Same sRGB image on both sides, on the right is color-aware (LR 4.2), on the left is color-stupid (MS Paint). So in order for sRGB to render correctly on a wide-gamut monitor, you NEED to use color aware applications. And the only color-aware browser is Firefox. IE9 processes embedded profiles but assumes the output device is sRGB, and other browsers like Chrome ignore it entirely. (Chrome has a setting to use the monitor profile, but that just broke it for me.) Windows' built in image previewer is color-aware, so you won't notice until you go to a browser.

    The worst part is, if you don't realize this and try to get the colors correct on your screen, you've now desaturated the hell out of them for everyone else. That's why I'm writing a blog post, after stumbling over this nasty gotcha and taking a long time to understand all the ins and outs.
     
    • Like Like x 3
  6. tubedriver

    tubedriver Mu-43 Regular

    138
    Mar 30, 2012
    Perth, Western Australia
    Shaun
    Thanks to those that have shared information with me. I have been unable to look at each one in depth due to lack of time today. Tomorrow and Sunday I will be off overseas for a day or two. On Monday I plan to sit down with all suggestions and spend some time sorting it out, I will post here what I discover.

    Thanks again. :smile:
     
  7. tubedriver

    tubedriver Mu-43 Regular

    138
    Mar 30, 2012
    Perth, Western Australia
    Shaun
    Again thanks to those that have taken the time to post in an effort to help me (probably others) with my problem

    Ok, after some reading and trying, this is what I found to be the solution to my problem.

    I think that the answers came from both Promit AND Amin.

    Firstly Promit. - You are absolutely correct. After installing Firefox (which was a free and easy exercise), I am now able to see the same colors on a picture that I have uploaded to Mu43 (or any other web-site) as the original photo processed in Photoshop or viewed on my computer using Windows Photo Gallery.

    Amin, I think that the information provided by Promit is very important. Perhaps this should be communicated to all existing members including new members as they join Mu-43. If members want to view an image in the colors that the photographer intended they (Windows users at least) need to download and install firefox as their web-browser.

    Secondly Amin. You were also correct. I have posted two images below that I took last Friday. They are exactly the same files. The first image has had (as you suggested) an sRGB ICC profile embedded into and saved with the image.


    Swan_Valley_Vinyards.


    This second image did not have the ICC profile embedded or saved with it. Although it came from the same file in Photoshop, the colors are quite different.


    Swan_Valley.

    Both Photos taken with OMD EM-5 with 9-18mm lens at 18mm, f/11, 1/8 sec, ISO 400
     
  8. mattia

    mattia Mu-43 Hall of Famer

    May 3, 2012
    The Netherlands
    Always convert to and embed sRGB for web use - although honestly, even non-tagged images should display fairly normally in non-colour managed apps (because they assume sRGB if no profile is included). I don't have any wide gamut monitors so I haven't experienced color management issues first hand.

    For the record, Safari also has no problems doing color management.
     
    • Like Like x 2
  9. Promit

    Promit Mu-43 All-Pro

    Jun 6, 2011
    Baltimore, MD
    Promit Roy
    I am writing an extended blog post discussing this and many other issues in color management. It's not done yet, but I would be happy to see it featured here when it is. Probably take me the remainder of this week to finish.

    As for your different images, basically it's because the web is quite vague about what to do with an image that doesn't specify a color profile. Firefox assumes by default that untagged is monitor profile, not sRGB! There is a hidden setting to change this so that it assumes all untagged images are sRGB. You may want to set this if you are using a wide gamut or calibrated display, as it will make a big difference in color accuracy while browsing.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  10. mattia

    mattia Mu-43 Hall of Famer

    May 3, 2012
    The Netherlands
    Ah, that makes more sense. My monitor profile is very close to sRGB, so various test sites seem to display untagged and tagged sRGB images identically. Although maybe Mac manages color spaces slightly differently from windows.

    Regardless, untagged images = not a good idea.