Canon R 800mm and 600mm f/11 lenses

ac12

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Yeah, good tip. Another issue with these long primes is if a subject comes closer. With a zoom it is no problem. With a prime you need to move, or have another camera with another lens, or change the lens. So both things considered I think they are not very comparable.
You have to pick the right tool/lens for the job.
Old saying, "Jack of all trades, is a master of none."

Fixed vs. zoom, each has advantages and disadvantages. Picking one or the other is usually a compromise decision.

Lets compare the Nikon 120-300/2.8 vs the 300/2.8, both 300/2.8 lenses.
  • The 120-300/2.8 is 7.1 pounds, the 300/2.8 is 6.4 pounds
    • Both lenses are above my hand-holding weight, and would have to be used on a tripod or monopod.
  • The 120-300/2.8 is $9,500 :eek:, the 300/2.8 cost is $5,500
Nikon does not list a zoom longer than 200-500.
And I think the 200-500 was brought out to compete with the Sigma/Tamron 150-600 lenses.

Just for giggles, here are the Nikon lenses, which match the FL of the Canon lenses.
  • the Nikon 600/4, 8.4 pounds, $12,300 :eek:
  • the Nikon 800/5.6, 10.1 pounds, $16,300 :eek:
 

pake

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I wonder how the performance compares to the 100-300. One thing is for sure. While certainly compact it is still about double the size of the 100-300.
Compact... Now let's be honest, that word is misused when describing these lenses. Just look at them when they're ready to shoot. (Note: I'm not "targeting" you for the use of the word but just used it as an example. Everyone seems to think/say they're compact. - No, no they're not.)
 

RS86

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Okay, well I wasn't talking about M43 at all in this case, just the new Canon lenses either on R5 or R6, meaning 45MP vs 20MP. And I think these budget lenses won't do justice to the 45MP sensor.

Even Lenstip tests the FF lenses for big MP and APS-C cameras for resolution on the edges, and many times the edges are not good enough for big MP cameras, unless the lens is top notch and expensive.
More on this. It seems Nikon released a similar design 500mm f/5.6 PF (similar as Canon's DO) lens in Fall 2018. It cost something like 3600 $. Got Editor's Choice at Lenstip, although a con was bad performance against bright light, which is odd for such an expensive lens, can it be because of the design or why is it?

Corner performance for FF is "good", while for APS-C it is "very good". So here we see what I was talking about, eventhough it seems corner performance can be better than I thought.

Although now we can see that when the best lens (Otus) gets 50 lpmm, this Nikon gets 43 lpmm and is f/5.6. Canon is double that at f/11, where diffraction of course affects more.

So here we can expect what I said, it won't "do justice" for the 45MP sensor, which is not to say it will be bad. Just a budget lens and I would rather buy it for R6 with 20MP sensor. For me as a beginner it was great advice to invest in better lenses rather than the camera. But let's wait for the reviews.

And now that I realized, I checked what MP is the Nikon camera tested here. It was a 24 MP camera. So actually we have to be even more careful when considering such lenses for a 45MP camera. I'm not sure what APS-C camera was used. What do you guys think?

"I suppose all our Readers already know that a lens as fast as f/5.6 and designed for full frame won’t beat any resolution records. Such records might be beaten by f/2.8-4.0 and only by lenses as fast as f/1.4 or so. In the case of the tested Nikkor the optics constructors didn’t have it easy; they had to employ an inventive technology and still ensure excellent image quality by f/5.6 – 8.0, so the apertures which are closest to the maximum relative one; it’s an area where optical aberrations still make themselves felt and you also start to notice an influence of diffraction. In the case of the Nikon D3x an ideally corrected lens, working in the diffraction limit, should fare as well as about 47-48 lpmm by f/5.6. The tested Nikkor got as high as almost 43 lpmm so it should be praised. It is as close to perfection as it was possible."

https://www.lenstip.com/540.4-Lens_..._500_mm_f_5.6E_PF_ED_VR_Image_resolution.html
 
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More on this. It seems Nikon released a similar design 500mm f/5.6 PF (similar as Canon's DO) lens in Fall 2018. It cost something like 3600 $. Got Editor's Choice at Lenstip, although a con was bad performance against bright light, which is odd for such an expensive lens, can it be because of the design or why is it?
https://www.lenstip.com/540.4-Lens_..._500_mm_f_5.6E_PF_ED_VR_Image_resolution.html
Indeed, the PF elements reduce weight and offer same performance as heavier, thicker non PF elements, but their drawback as noticed in all the reviews is not so great performance against a heavily backlit scene. But I believe lot of people would rather have a tiny and light proper 500mm that they can carry everywhere than hauling a giant hunk of a glass that 500mm f4 is for slight improvement in back-lit shoot.

IMO, the price that this lens commands is actually pretty good - that is, not expensive, relatively speaking. The lightness, compactness has to be accounted for. It covers the FF image circle, is tiny for 500mm and has incredible performance just like the 300mm PF. It takes TCs and retains a lot of performance. The lens by DSLR/FF standards is featherweight and rightfully became a hot item. Used/refurbished 500 PF lenses get sold at pretty much the same price as brand new ones simply because you can't even find them anywhere. The demand was/is still quite high but those PF elements are hard to make, possibly explaining why Nikon can't supply them at enough pace (however Nikon is known to have issues with stocking in general - D850 comes to mind).

The new Canon DO lenses could/should have same backlit scene issue too. But more than that, I am curious how would the lens perform AF-wise at such small aperture and it can go down to f22 with the TC, which is ridiculous. If new Canon bodies can drive that lens for moderate BIF action in AF-C/tracking mode its a win at that price.
 
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I'm a little surprised about all of the doom and gloom about the long lenses here. I shoot the 100-400 @f/6.3 all the time. The light gathered by these full frame lenses is actually a little better than that. Fixed aperture and fixed focal length should be relatively easy to make sharp. They might be perfect lenses for someone to do some backyard birding. So you have to shoot higher isos to get the SS up, no biggie, the bigger sensor offsets that with respect to noise. At 800mm you'll still get subject isolation. I'm not in the market for these lenses, but if I were a Canon shooter, I'd give them a closer look.
 

Hypilein

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For sure, if I was forced to be a canon user I would look at these lenses. They are the only reasonable sized 600mm FOV lenses available to FF users. But really, it just makes me love my mu43 lenses more. They may be compact for what they are, but they are still big in the grand scheme of taking cameras on holiday.

I remember two years ago, going to Iceland and carrying the P100-300 all the way just for a few images of puffins at Látrabjarg birdcliffs. I felt the P100-300 was almost too big and I am sure I would not have taken this lens on that trip if it had been the size of the 600mm f11. The year before I went to the Isle of Skye in Scotland. I carried the P100-300 around on every hike, just on the off-chance of an eagle or any other wildlife, and I did get rewarded by some good images. Again a 600mm f11 would have stayed at home.

If you're already invested in FF (hopefully you're a mainly wide-normal kind of shooter) than this lens is perfect for an occasional wild-life situation. But coming from mu43 you would be mad to think this is superior to even the budget lenses of our system, let alone something like the 300f4 PRO.
 

stratokaster

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I think their use of Fresnel lenses is a genuine innovation. The 70-300mm DO was a very good (optically) lens in a tiny package (for a 300mm full frame lens). I expect these new slow telephoto primes to be very good optically as well.
 

BDR-529

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It's amusing that I thought it was unlikely that "FF and slow" would become a real thing and yet here it is.
Well, even if Canon mirrorless FF customers become disappointed with their telezooms low light performance, they can at least fix the problem by switching to MFT

What kind of focus group did Canon have in mind when they designed super zoom lenses to be used on a warm sunny day and even then the target should be pretty much stationary. Maybe those who live next to a nudist beach?
 
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RS86

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I'm a little surprised about all of the doom and gloom about the long lenses here. I shoot the 100-400 @f/6.3 all the time. The light gathered by these full frame lenses is actually a little better than that. Fixed aperture and fixed focal length should be relatively easy to make sharp. They might be perfect lenses for someone to do some backyard birding. So you have to shoot higher isos to get the SS up, no biggie, the bigger sensor offsets that with respect to noise. At 800mm you'll still get subject isolation. I'm not in the market for these lenses, but if I were a Canon shooter, I'd give them a closer look.
I'm a little surprised you see it as doom & gloom, I haven't witnessed such on this topic. Personally I shoot my 75-300mm at 300mm & f/6.7-8.0 (FF f/14-16), and it is great for me.

The interest in these lenses is genuine as it is the first time FF has tried to do what M43 has done for ages. So comparisons are natural in my opinion.

But like others have said, after pondering about them after the hype, I would say they are not very compact and I don't expect them to do any miracles, especially on the 45MP sensor. But they are great option for some FF shooters who finally get reach in more compact and budget-friendly size.
 
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