Canon R 800mm and 600mm f/11 lenses

ac12

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Forced to shot with higher ISO is only one of the down sidea of these lenses.

Seams to be limitations when it comes to AF also as there is a reduction in overall focusing area...down to a 60 x 40 grid, which is similar to the autofocus area of the Canon EOS 6D Mark II.

AF speed will probably be fin in day light/good light but how will it perform when the light fall or you are in wood lands?

How will the AF be on the RP and R ?
I wonder if the smaller AF area is due to light falloff or lower contrast, as you head away from the center of the lens.
Otherwise I can't see how the lens would have that kind of limitation. But then I'm not an autofocus engineer either.
 

Hypilein

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Remember that with an f11 lens basically any FF advantage except maybe resolution is gone compared to a f5.6 lens like the 100-300. Doubt this lens is sharper and it still is a lot larger. I'm not convinced.
 

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Remember that with an f11 lens basically any FF advantage except maybe resolution is gone compared to a f5.6 lens like the 100-300. Doubt this lens is sharper and it still is a lot larger. I'm not convinced.
I'm pretty sure these budget lenses won't resolve enough for the 45MP R5. R6 is 20MP.
 

RS86

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This announcement made the Panasonic and Olympus offerings way more attractive than they already were. If you had doubt going the Canon route than you are probably very happy you didn't jump ship.
Yeah, actually it could attract some more people to M43, when people start comparing and realize M43 system benefits more widely.

Not saying switching but if they prefer a tele-zoom, they might rather buy a second camera for tele stuff.
 
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tkbslc

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I think the MFD on those tele lenses, though, are pretty bad. (4.5 and 6m). Which, if you are birding, might make sense, but limits strongly for other uses.
It's the same as on their massive white L siblings.

I'm pretty sure these budget lenses won't resolve enough for the 45MP R5. R6 is 20MP.
Due to the pixel density of FF, they'd only need to be as good as a lens that can resolve 11.25MP on 4/3.
 

RS86

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Due to the pixel density of FF, they'd only need to be as good as a lens that can resolve 11.25MP on 4/3.
What I meant that surely their budget lenses won't have enough resolution for 45MP sensor? And for a comparison I'm 100 % sure my 75-300mm won't be as sharp as PL 100-400mm or 300mm Pro even on a 16MP sensor. What did you mean?
 

tkbslc

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What I meant that surely their budget lenses won't have enough resolution for 45MP sensor? And for a comparison I'm 100 % sure my 75-300mm won't be as sharp as PL 100-400mm or 300mm Pro even on a 16MP sensor. What did you mean?
The resolution of the sensor is not important, it is the pixel density. The higher the pixel density, the higher demands on each unit of glass in the lens to resolve detail for smaller pixels. Given that FF is 1/4 as dense as m4/3, the lenses only need to be 1/4 as sharp per area to achieve the same perceived sharpness.

It means FF lenses don't need to be as good as m4/3 lenses, so I don't have much worry that they can handle 45MP FF pixel density.
 

RS86

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The resolution of the sensor is not important, it is the pixel density. The higher the pixel density, the higher demands on each unit of glass in the lens to resolve detail for smaller pixels. Given that FF is 1/4 as dense as m4/3, the lenses only need to be 1/4 as sharp per area to achieve the same perceived sharpness.

It means FF lenses don't need to be as good as m4/3 lenses, so I don't have much worry that they can handle 45MP FF pixel density.
So FF users can just buy budget lenses to get same sharpness as the most expensive lenses? Just the aperture is different and coatings etc. maybe?
 

tkbslc

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So FF users can just buy budget lenses to get same sharpness as the most expensive lenses? Just the aperture is different and coatings etc. maybe?
A budget lens on a larger sensor can often resolve more detail than a pro lens on smaller one. yes. Of course other things like contrast, color, uniformity, vignetting, CA, build, AF are not included in that statement.
 

RS86

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A budget lens on a larger sensor can often resolve more detail than a pro lens on smaller one. yes. Of course other things like contrast, color, uniformity, vignetting, CA, build, AF are not included in that statement.
Okay, well I wasn't talking about M43 at all in this case, just the new Canon lenses either on R5 or R6, meaning 45MP vs 20MP. And I think these budget lenses won't do justice to the 45MP sensor.

Even Lenstip tests the FF lenses for big MP and APS-C cameras for resolution on the edges, and many times the edges are not good enough for big MP cameras, unless the lens is top notch and expensive.
 
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Ha! These are zoom lenses with 0mm on the wide end and 600/800mm on the long end with nothing in between. They do maintain constant... f/11 through out.

I haven't been in photography for decades like some members here so this collapsible design for a prime lens baffles me. I haven't seen a prime like that.

Having said that, this is a day that has really perked my ears and I am looking at Canon with interest that I never had before.
Some really interesting lenses now exist in RF mount. The RP that was put into awkward situation by Canon themselves now can hope for better life ahead. It's also commendable that Canon crammed IS and custom control ring on all these budget lenses.
 

ac12

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Seems to me the biggest problem will be perception. Who would really be happy bragging about buying an f11 lens !! ;)
If you NEED the reach, you use what you can get, and put up with the slow aperture.
I have no problem with my 500/8 mirror lens. And I would not mind having the 1000/11 mirror either.

How big and how much $$$$ would a 800/5.6 be and cost.
The front element has to be at least 143mm in diameter. That is a big heavy piece of glass.

Back in the film days, I wasn't happy with a SLOW 300/5.6, but there was no 300/2.8 back then. And even if there was, I could not afford it.
And today, having seen a 300/2.8, I would not want to try to hand-hold it. Too big and heavy.​
 

ac12

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Okay, well I wasn't talking about M43 at all in this case, just the new Canon lenses either on R5 or R6, meaning 45MP vs 20MP. And I think these budget lenses won't do justice to the 45MP sensor.

Even Lenstip tests the FF lenses for big MP and APS-C cameras for resolution on the edges, and many times the edges are not good enough for big MP cameras, unless the lens is top notch and expensive.
Right now, image quality is a guess.
We have to wait for someone to test it and publish the test results.

It is a simple telephoto; single focal length, somewhat small fixed aperture.
The optical design is way less complicated than a zoom.
 

RS86

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Right now, image quality is a guess.
We have to wait for someone to test it and publish the test results.

It is a simple telephoto; single focal length, somewhat small fixed aperture.
The optical design is way less complicated than a zoom.
Yeah, but at f/11 and budget lens made for "compact" size I still don't expect them to be very good on the 45MP sensor.

One option of course is, if someone has the 45MP camera and is more of a landscape photographer, is to have this kind of lens with you. Then you can crop the center and get pretty good quality and reach. In compact form and weight in FF terms.

When do you guys think we will get proper reviews and charts for these? The testers usually get the lenses in advance? How long do those usually take? Will be interesting.
 
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ac12

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I don't think one should compare a zoom to long-tele prime. A prime is much harder to use, because you can't look where the subject is and then zoom in on it. A long-tele prime is of course great for maximum reach situations.
he he
My brother's 500 for his 35mm film camera, has a fixed sight on the lens (like a rifle), so that you can aim the lens, to get it close.

I think it comes down to technique and practice.
I have not had a problem aiming a 300mm lens on my Olympus.
I look at the subject, keep my eye on the subject, then raise the camera to my eye.
Using this technique, I am usually quite close.
My only qualification is that the magnification is not so great that there is little space around the subject. This technique needs some empty space around the subject, to then fine tune the aiming in the viewfinder.

On tripod, it would be harder.
But like a shotgun, you line up the barrel of the lens with the target, and you are close.
 

RS86

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he he
My brother's 500 for his 35mm film camera, has a fixed sight on the lens (like a rifle), so that you can aim the lens, to get it close.

I think it comes down to technique and practice.
I have not had a problem aiming a 300mm lens on my Olympus.
I look at the subject, keep my eye on the subject, then raise the camera to my eye.
Using this technique, I am usually quite close.
My only qualification is that the magnification is not so great that there is little space around the subject. This technique needs some empty space around the subject, to then fine tune the aiming in the viewfinder.

On tripod, it would be harder.
But like a shotgun, you line up the barrel of the lens with the target, and you are close.
Yeah, good tip. Another issue with these long primes is if a subject comes closer. With a zoom it is no problem. With a prime you need to move, or have another camera with another lens, or change the lens.

So both things considered I think they are not very comparable. Personally I would not buy a long tele prime, eventhough they can be great for many.
 

Holoholo55

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Canon's approach reminds me of those ads in the back of old photo magazines advertising cheap, pre-set long telephoto lenses. Old-timers may remember. Except those cost a lot less than these. Then again, these new lenses have IS and AF.

For the benefit of those who were been born near the end of the 20th century, pre-set meant that the lenses were manual aperture and focus, of course, but there were two aperture rings. You selected the aperture using the camera's built-in exposure meter, then moved the pre-set ring to that aperture. Then you opened the aperture of the lens to focus precisely, and before you released the shutter, closed the aperture to the pre-set position. It was kind of an elegant solution when you think about it. :)
 
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These lenses serve a dual function. They are a placeholder lens for RF mirrorless that offers the option of native prime long glass versus using an EF adapter on existing DSLR lenses. And they are entry-level, approachable optics at very reasonable prices for special event and occasional telephoto use. Extreme cost wedding and lifestyle super-bright prime and zooms to keep the pros happy (and they are), combined with quirky budget extreme telephotos for "the rest of us". It's going to be considerable time before native RF long glass is designed and manufactured, so what we see here is partly opening a door and partly intermediary.

The R and RP camera models are also placeholders. They advanced the mount at certain price points until the big guns came along, as Canon prioritized the RF glass over bodies. The next iteration of the R and RP could see dual-stabilization FF from $1,000 bodies to the $2,000 price point in addition to the R5 and 6. Look for those upgrades in 2021. And look for the mirrorless 1Dx model, too.

Canon has a very well-thought out strategy. They are playing the long game.
 

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