Canon and Nikon looking to make "pro" mirrorless?

Discussion in 'Open Discussion' started by speedandstyle, Sep 19, 2014.

  1. speedandstyle

    speedandstyle Mu-43 Hall of Famer

  2. Listener

    Listener Mu-43 Regular

    Both Nikon and Canon probably know far more about mirrorless than you do. Their business decisions so far don't indicate ignorance.
  3. humzai

    humzai Mu-43 Veteran

    Apr 17, 2012
    Except all the evidence to the contrary.
  4. OzRay

    OzRay Mu-43 Legend

    Jan 29, 2010
    South Gippsland, Australia
    Real Name:
    Ray, not Oz
    There's a bit more here:

    I think the telling comment is:

    To achieve this, their mirrorless must be as good as their mirrored, which would then likely be cannibalised. That won't bring growth, just maintain the status quo. And they would need a third (fourth?) line-up of lenses
  5. tosvus

    tosvus Mu-43 Top Veteran

    Jan 4, 2014
    It will be interesting to see if they are too late to the ball at the point where mirror less is indeed equal or better in all respects (based on recent developments, there are pretty clear indications that mirrorless technology is catching up - though of course one can't say for sure it will be 100% in all areas).

    Maybe it doesn't matter if they are late - mirrorless sales are not impressive, so they may be the ones surviving, just because people figure they are the best always, even in cases where this is not true..
  6. robbie36

    robbie36 Mu-43 All-Pro

    Sep 25, 2010
    Real Name:
    rob collins
    My personal guess is that both Canon and Nikon's entry into the mirrorless market will be seriously crippled by their desire to protect their DSLR sales. But we wont know until they try.

    Obviously Sony has shown that you can enter the mirrorless market and take market share from the encumbents - they currently have 40% market share in mirrorless which is more than Oly and Panny combined.
  7. pdk42

    pdk42 One of the "Eh?" team

    Jan 11, 2013
    Leamington Spa, UK
    Surely the issue that Canon and Nikon have is the sheer cost of replacing such a huge back-catalogue of lenses. Look how long it's taken them to produce even a small range for DX/EFS.
  8. humzai

    humzai Mu-43 Veteran

    Apr 17, 2012

    Are your forgetting that after M 4/3 sony was the first to release a mirroless camera system?
  9. Just Jim

    Just Jim Mu-43 Top Veteran

    Oct 20, 2011
    That Canon and Nikon report less profit as opposed to continued red ink to every other manufacturer.

    It's likely going to be a larger format than 35mm probably close to the pentax 645 to start so they can move the pro's over without completely alienating them if I had to venture a guess. A mirror less MF body just a bit larger than current FF DSLR's would be a smart move for them. That way sports shooters, wildlife shooters can maintain, studio can excel and marketing would crush the little guys and eventually that technology can trickle down to smaller bodies as margin increases. They haven't been on top for 40 years and not learn anything, when Japanese companies finally move watch out.
  10. speedandstyle

    speedandstyle Mu-43 Hall of Famer

    Got a source for this number? Not saying you are wrong, just like to see how the mirrorless market is divided.
  11. Zee

    Zee Mu-43 Top Veteran

    Funnily enough, about 6 weeks ago, the owner of the cafe I go to told me about this. His brother works in robotics, and does a lot of work for Canon, allegedly. I didn't know whether or not to believe him, but now it seems he may, in fact, have a good connection for rumours...

  12. OzRay

    OzRay Mu-43 Legend

    Jan 29, 2010
    South Gippsland, Australia
    Real Name:
    Ray, not Oz
    I guess when Canon/Nikon enter the mirrorless market in a serious way, that's when mirrorless becomes accepted as a genuine camera technology and m4/3 cameras stop working.:eek:
  13. drd1135

    drd1135 Zen Snapshooter

    Mar 17, 2011
    Southwest Virginia
    Real Name:
    I don't think we should assume C&N haven't miscalculated at least a little in their mirror-less strategy. This stuff is hard to predict even for the pros. They may have just held out as long as they can, but are now starting to be afraid they could get caught behind if they don't start producing some pro-quality MILC.
  14. alex66

    alex66 Mu-43 Top Veteran

    Jul 23, 2010
    It all depends on what Sony do with the A7 series lenses and how good APS is by the time they enter the market with a decent offering. I think Nikon could make the 1 series a stellar option for some types of shooter, but Canon released IMHO the most lack ouster mirror less option. The problems they will face now though is how many lenses do the competing systems have to offer? they will have to come out not only with a great camera but a reasonable set of lenses from the off, the A7 series also has too few options of lens at the moment as well. It should not be automatically presumed Canon or Nikon will take the lions share of the market, Leica's were the go to 35mm camera for years and then Nikon brought out the F and the rest is history. If they do not come out with a good option in the next 12-18 months it could well be too late if Sony comes out with a lower cost FF option and gets a decent set of lenses together along with the second generation of the A7's. It might be that due to Fuji and m43 having good enough sensors the 35mm size sensor will become a more specialised format like MF has become. I think Canon in trying to protect their SLR sales may have shot themselves in the foot with this, Nikon less so the 1 series has some good points, I thought the only growing non phone section of the camera market was the mirror less.
  15. Zee

    Zee Mu-43 Top Veteran

    I doubt the new lenses would be a totally new mount. It will still be EOS, with all the same connections, it would just need a spacer with conductors running through it, which will then be called an adapter, and cost a the price of a cheap lens. All existing glass would keep working... Similar to 43 lenses on the E-M1, which, according to many, may even work better than on the 43 bodies...

  16. fortwodriver

    fortwodriver Mu-43 Top Veteran

    Nov 15, 2013
    Toronto, Ontario, Canada
    Real Name:
    I bet Canon and Nikon have had something "mirrorless", some adaptation using custom lenses and flange-back designs in their R&D labs for years. Obviously, it's useless if it doesn't come to market, but I really doubt they have NOTHING in their back-pocket.

    At this point, I'm too happy with my Olympus gear to care all that much what Nikon or Canon does. Even the OM-2n and OM-4 I recently bought have such great mechanics to them for film cameras, I sort of wonder why I didn't invest in an Olympus system sooner. The only other cameras that provide that tactile quality are my M4, and my beloved Pentax Spotmatic, which went everywhere with me for years.
  17. Bhupinder2002

    Bhupinder2002 Mu-43 Hall of Famer

  18. Reflector

    Reflector Mu-43 Veteran

    Aug 31, 2013
    Nikon? Competent release? You gotta be kidding me. They released that sorry excuse of a D650---sorry I mean "D750" which is nothing more than a D610 with some upgrades out of desperate flailing. D610? Just a shutter fix for the D600.

    1 series? They did a horrible kitbash in terms of features (E-M5 grip addon being part of it) all while screaming about the mag and AF without giving it any decent optics, any other mounting options all while you get a crippled FT-1 that destroys the bokeh balls of any lens faster than f/1.8... Not to mention that Nikon intrinsically hates the 1 series anyways and anything they get is basically a bone thrown to them.

    And I say this coming over from Nikon as a system. A lot of Nikon users are leaving Nikon because the corporate direction is going into the gutter fast. I readily recommend Canon for anyone looking for a DSLR these days unless they have some weird masochistic obsession over buying a D3s like myself or a D700 like others. Don't get me started on the cult of the D400 or the D700s (Because the "D750" isn't.)

    This is all without having to point out anything about the 58G either. See LensTip's remarks on the subject. Blatant crummy cash grab. Nikon will cripple your "pro mirrorless" faster than the mafia will cripple someone for unpaid debts. They'll screw their users dry faster than an impact wrench hooked up to the mains can drive a 1/2" spline drive driven pump. There's also the giant, massive middle finger to APS-C, which you can expect to see the moment they release a "pro" 1 series.
  19. OzRay

    OzRay Mu-43 Legend

    Jan 29, 2010
    South Gippsland, Australia
    Real Name:
    Ray, not Oz
    I couldn't see the point of making a mirrorless camera and then just relying on old lenses with adapters, they would surely have to develop new lenses more suited to the camera, just like Olympus has done with m4/3s.
  20. dougjgreen

    dougjgreen Mu-43 All-Pro

    Jun 5, 2013
    San Diego
    Real Name:
    Doug Green
    Both Canon and Nikon have already delivered intentionally crippled Mirrorless products to the market: Nikon's 1 system could be made competent quite easily, by taking the existing V2 or V3 products, and dropping a capable current gen. or newer Sony 1 inch sensor with PDAF pixels on sensor, and providing the same level of control functionality and features as is on a D5300 or D7100. Canon's EOS M system could be made competent simply by delivering competent AF and a reasonable lens offering to go with a body having a perfectly good APS-C sensor already.