Bye, Bye, Lightroom ...

kwalsh

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Do you think Adobe believes that the current price is optimum? Of course not. It is a bait-and-switch price designed to get as many customers locked in as possible.
Just a friendly reminder we are now five years out from the OP warning how Adobe was locking everyone in with plans to jack up the price on the photography bundle. We were treated to unsubstantiated claims of authority and a host of other logical fallacies as is typical of such forum posts.

It is useful to periodically check these kinds of sky is falling pontifications against the simple, clarifying empirical evidence of time.

So where are we five years later? The price is exactly the same as when the OP posted - $9.99 in the US for the Photography Plan. It’s been a period of relatively low inflation but still in inflation adjusted dollars the real price has dropped by about 10%.

I guess Adobe is playing the really, really long game here and hasn’t found quite enough suckers to execute their masterful plan.

And now please enjoy the rest of the forums mindful of the just how much predictive utility even posters claiming decades of brilliant commercial pricing and marketing experience actually have in the real world. Oh, and take more photos too!
 
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It (Lightroom) remains my go to editing program.
I also use DXO and Topaz, but most of my editing is done with Lightroom. I’ve no problem with paying the subscription.
The subscription model is a huge win.

Consumers always have access to the latest features and bug fixes,
Software vendors get a predictable, recurring revenue stream and don't have to support and develop bug fixes for multiple versions of the same application.
Piracy rates drop. Gone are the days of having to pirate Photoshop because it was unobtainably expensive.

I'll tell you what to, as someone who used to be personally responsible for software licensing and compliance for quantities in the hundreds (and sometimes thousands), the subscription model is a huge win for my productivity and sanity too.

Before Creative Cloud an Adobe licencing audit would take months, have to look at out of date spreadsheets and multiple licensing portals. When Creative Cloud came in we could generate an up to date report instantaneously, and as an added bonus we could generate usage reports for potentially under utilised applications. And when a user left the business instead of having a multi thousand dollar software license not being used we could cancel it. Likewise if we had a short term project that required a particular package we could pay for the license for the duration of the project (and extend it if need be) instead of charging the client for a huge lump sum for software we'd only use once.

Software subscriptions, I'm a huge fan.
 

D7k1

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LightRoom is now very powerful as a photo tool. I've been using Photoshop for over 20 years and it is the atom bomb or the graphics/creative world for doing very complex work. Now AI is coming in a big way many users who never learned masks, layers, and other tools in automated "click here to do this". If M43 (meaning Panasonic) would go away I'd be happy with Canon/Nikon and a small set of lenses (500 5.6 for Nikon and the new 100-500 Canon zoom, Normal, wide f2.8 zooms - I'd use my Canon 500D on the long lenses for macro). There are photo focused software programs that are very good (I upgrade On1 every other year "just in case" and to support a local company), however for my artisitc and video (yes Photoshop has some good tools like LUT creation) I'd have to add two or more other programs. However for me, the biggest plus for Photoshop is all the training that is available online. If there is something I need to do that is complex and I've not done before there is always a "how to video"somewhere on the net, that is priceless - especially for those who use Photoshop in their job or business. $9.95 - best deal in the creative world.
 

oldracer

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... I guess Adobe is playing the really, really long game here and hasn’t found quite enough suckers to execute their masterful plan ...
Yes, you're probably right. Here, for example: https://9to5mac.com/2019/05/02/adobe-creative-cloud-price-hike/

There are a couple of things we can still be sure of: (1) Mother Teresa is not running the place, and (2) the objective of all pricing is to maximize long term revenue vs cost to obtain that revenue.

IIRC 2Q2018 Adobe reported record profits and simultaneously announced a price increase in Creative Cloud. I don't keep track of this but here's a link from a quick search: https://www.boredpanda.com/adobe-cr...oogle&utm_medium=organic&utm_campaign=organic

I think it's reasonable to expect that full Creative Cloud customers are "stickier" than LR/PS customers, as they are more likely to be businesses using multiple apps, where switching cost is high. (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Switching_barriers) So it will be easier for Adobe to raise prices on that segment of the business -- which they seem to be doing.

LR/PS prices have not increased? I'll take your word for it and obviously that is good for the LR/PS customer. What it means is that Adobe has not been as successful as they expected with that class of customer. Probably fewer than expected are signing up, but maybe their installed base is actually shrinking. There are also many competitors showing up on the radar, certainly more than I had expected, and maybe more than Adobe had expected. Pricing strategy is not precision machining; it involves forecasting the future -- which is very difficult. They have obviously decided that the competitive environment is such that they would be unwise to raise prices. At least so far.

Inductive reasoning is fraught. But always remember Taleb's Turkey: https://www.businessinsider.com/nassim-talebs-black-swan-thanksgiving-turkey-2014-11 Particularly apropos this week, IMO.

So, @kwalsh, check back again in five years and see how things are going. Maybe, if the LR/PS crowd is lucky, Adobe might still be unable to raise prices. Or maybe not.
 
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LR/PS prices have not increased? I'll take your word for it and obviously that is good for the LR/PS customer. What it means is that Adobe has not been as successful as they expected with that class of customer.
It means nothing of the sort. All it means is prices haven't increased, we don't have any real or meaningful insight as to why.

By your logic I could argue that because they haven't lowered their prices, their current pricing must be as successful as they anticipated.

Pricing strategy is not precision machining; it involves forecasting the future -- which is very difficult.
It's a lot easier to forecast into the future when you have customers paying a recurring revenue rather than a lump sum.

Don't forget the LR/PS bundle is only available on a 12 month commitment. For every customer that signs up to the plan they can expect 12 months of revenue from that customer. Over periods of years and decades they can make year over year trend lines of what customers renew vs cancel after their commitment is up

They have obviously decided that the competitive environment is such that they would be unwise to raise prices. At least so far.
Again, pure speculation, nothing else.

If I had to speculate, as to why LR/PS prices haven't increased I would guess Adobe have simply decided it's priced appropriately. One problem that Creative Cloud is designed (and has largley succeceded) to solve is reducing piracy. Under Creative Cloud, Adobe makes less per year per customer than they would per year per customer from perpetual licensing. However, because the software is more affordable, they more than make up for it in volume and piracy rates decrease as a result. That goes out the window when you raise prices and make the software unobtainable again.
 

doady

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Whether or not subscription is better than traditional license is debatable. Whether or not taking away people's options is better than giving them options is not debatable.
 
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I think it's reasonable to expect that full Creative Cloud customers are "stickier" than LR/PS customers, as they are more likely to be businesses using multiple apps, where switching cost is high. (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Switching_barriers) So it will be easier for Adobe to raise prices on that segment of the business -- which they seem to be doing.
This is nothing new though and not exclusive to Adobe either. Adobe and plenty of other software vendors would revise and often increase their annual licensing costs in the commercial/enterprise space year over year long before subscription licensing was a thing.

And it's still more beneficial than perpetual licensing. Before subscription pricing if you needed an application for a 3 month project, you still needed to pay for an outright license with a valid support and maintenance agreement. You then had this expensive software package sitting there doing nothing for the rest of it's life. The TCO potential was huge. Under the subscription model, you're paying for the application for the duration of the project and then you're done with it. Project get put on hold for 12 months and then gets picked up again? There's 12 months you haven't been paying for a piece of software that's sitting there not getting used.

There are many other benefits in the commercial space too. Far more flexibility and far less overhead with managing licenses.
 
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LightRoom is now very powerful as a photo tool. I've been using Photoshop for over 20 years and it is the atom bomb or the graphics/creative world for doing very complex work. Now AI is coming in a big way many users who never learned masks, layers, and other tools in automated "click here to do this". If M43 (meaning Panasonic) would go away I'd be happy with Canon/Nikon and a small set of lenses (500 5.6 for Nikon and the new 100-500 Canon zoom, Normal, wide f2.8 zooms - I'd use my Canon 500D on the long lenses for macro). There are photo focused software programs that are very good (I upgrade On1 every other year "just in case" and to support a local company), however for my artisitc and video (yes Photoshop has some good tools like LUT creation) I'd have to add two or more other programs. However for me, the biggest plus for Photoshop is all the training that is available online. If there is something I need to do that is complex and I've not done before there is always a "how to video"somewhere on the net, that is priceless - especially for those who use Photoshop in their job or business. $9.95 - best deal in the creative world.
I find myself jumping into Photoshop less and less with each LR Classic update.

I wouldn't, because I still love Photoshop and I get it as part of the deal but I could easily do away with it completely.

Whether or not subscription is better than traditional license is debatable. Whether or not taking away people's options is better than giving them options is not debatable.
Dem's da brakes

If Adobe makes changes that gains a lot of customers and loses some customers in the process, that's business. They don't owe you an agreement that's tailored to your specific needs.

This could also read:
Consumers always have access to the latest features and bugs
Adobe are a lot better at fixing newly introduced bugs than other vendors though.

On1 were far worse when I was using Photo RAW.
 

oldracer

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If Adobe hadn't been as successful and fewer people are signing up, wouldn't that mean that it's not priced appropriately?
You tire me out, man. I have priced literally thousands of products over many years and experienced the consequences of every one of those decisions in my own pockets. Generally positively. And your actual hands-on experience is ... ?
 
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You tire me out, man. I have priced literally thousands of products over many years and experienced the consequences of every one of those decisions in my own pockets. Generally positively.
I'm not here to persionally rejuvinate you, let's get that right.

I can only go on what you've posted. You're the one contradicting yourself, not me.

And your actual hands-on experience is ... ?
My hands on experience is on both sides of the coin. I've been involved in key decision making as an enterprise level customer. And I've also been involved in key decision making as an enterprise level software vendor.

Like your experience though, my personal experience is not relevant to this discussion. I'm not here for a dick waving contest either.
 
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