Bye, Bye, Lightroom ...

Turbofrog

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Links to some data, please.

Edit: The reason I ask is because your 84%/10% figure is inconsistent with the commonly-cited figure that passive funds own about 40% of the US market cap. I guess it could be true if the definition of "individual" includes individual mutual funds like the Vanguard Total Stock Market Index Fund. In that case, though, the 84/10 is quite misleading.
The Richest 10% of Americans Now Own 84% of All Stocks

Info is from a 2016 paper from the National Bureau of Economic Research.

The paper costs money, so it's also been summarized in more depth by Politifact.

The argument about mutual funds is a bit of an odd one, since you're basically talking about a shell game. You need to look at the distribution of ownership of the mutual fund itself. Those ETFs are owned by individual and institutions, and down the line, eventually all those other institutions are owned by individuals. The wealth is inordinately concentrated in very few hands. This is not a controversial statement.
 
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Mike G

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This discussion? of lightroom is getting way too far off the point and is becoming really boring really boring.
If you don’t like Lr then move on, but slagging it or Adobe off does nothing to contribute to a sensible conversation!
 
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I am amazed that any non-shill would defend dobe's business practices.
The question is more: Are you satisfied that the software you get for the money you pay?
Each of us have our own answer to this question.

Now, if someone has an ethical problem of dealing with a company with these commercial practices (and that's perfectly understandable), then there is no question at all.
But I find quite odd that some people say they have ethical problems with adobe but continue using their products (but continuously criticize them on the internet).
 

ralf-11

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Are you satisfied that the Uber ride you get for the money you pay?
Each of us have our own answer to this question.

Now, if someone has an ethical problem of dealing with a company with these commercial practices (and that's perfectly understandable), then there is no question at all.
But I find quite odd that some people say they have ethical problems with adobe but continue using their products (but continuously criticize them on the internet).

same re comcast or other cable co.s


I am surprised that you find it odd that people react to bad or unethical practices by a monopoly or near-monopoly.

Criticism can sometimes get entities to clean up their act.
 

Mikehit

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I am amazed that any non-shill would defend dobe's business practices.
I use Adobe CC and am happy to do so and am happy with how I pay for it.

What business practice am I 'defending'?
Does being happy with it mean I am 'defending' it?
Does that make me a shill?

Shill: "an accomplice of a confidence trickster or swindler who poses as a genuine customer to entice or encourage others."
I have not, nor have I ever, been contacted by Adobe asking me to pretend to be a customer. If I did I would not be paying £10 a month for paying for it (but then if I was a shill I would say that wouldn't I so this makes your argument non-falsifiable)
 

RichardC

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I've read a few pages of the review site where Adobe do indeed get an awful lot of 1 star reviews.

Virtually all of the complaints seem to centre around the 1 year rolling subscription model and the idea of paying a punitive penalty (actually, the balance of the year which they haven't yet paid) when trying to cancel early, often having accessed the full range of software to complete a project (or 30 people's projects - who really knows?) for a single monthly payment out of 12. It clearly states in Adobe's terms that deciding to stop using the software doesn't mean you can just walk away from outstanding fees. The Ts and Cs are pretty concise compared to most.

Another complaint is that you can't access your Photoshop edits with third party software. Why would they do that?

Yet another complaint refers to people not knowing that the annual plan renews. Adobe email me when my plan is about to renew - I just got one for Creative Cloud.

There is a 7 day free trial for people to figure out whether or not the software is for them before they commit to a 1 year subscription.

Full version Photoshop used to retail here in the UK for multiple hundreds of pounds for the base software and £130++ for software upgrades as and when they were released. It was a huge temptation for people to buy cracked software off the web. You have never been able to legally access full version Photoshop (not elements) for ten quid and then just walk away.
 
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After reading the recent part of this thread I feel like maybe I should be a CC subscriber. Seems most are very happy with it.

But then there are others who seem to truly despise Adobe. I guess I’ve been in the middle of those mindsets.

I’m still on Lr 6. And it works even with the files from my recent G9 purchase. So no need for me to get CC other than for feature updates and cloud related stuff. I don’t even know how to use photoshop.

I’ve tried a few other trials and also purchased Luminar about one year ago when they promised a DAM imminently. Which has just now come out.

Those never felt any better to me. Too complicated or slow. Don’t want to bother to learn a whole new program. I had used Aperture in the past but since it was abandoned gave up on it.

I wish it were easier. Because once you get on that CC train it will be very hard to get off. One would have to start over and re-edit files as needed.
 

RichardC

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After reading the recent part of this thread I feel like maybe I should be a CC subscriber. Seems most are very happy with it.

But then there are others who seem to truly despise Adobe. I guess I’ve been in the middle of those mindsets.

I’m still on Lr 6. And it works even with the files from my recent G9 purchase. So no need for me to get CC other than for feature updates and cloud related stuff. I don’t even know how to use photoshop.

I’ve tried a few other trials and also purchased Luminar about one year ago when they promised a DAM imminently. Which has just now come out.

Those never felt any better to me. Too complicated or slow. Don’t want to bother to learn a whole new program. I had used Aperture in the past but since it was abandoned gave up on it.

I wish it were easier. Because once you get on that CC train it will be very hard to get off. One would have to start over and re-edit files as needed.
My only reservation for a new subscriber is the variations on plans. The baseline photography plan in the UK is roughly GBP10 a month, or GBP120 if you pay in one go for a one year licence. Either way, you're on the hook for GBP120.00 for 12 months use and the 12 month contract WILL renew automatically unless you put a note in your diary to opt out.

There are valid complaints that people are only shown plans with lots of cloud storage for double/treble the baseline fee - BUT - if you dig, you should find the right place to sign up for the GBP120 annual/GBP10 per month version or whatever the US equivalent is (usually less than we pay) for the non-usb-stick-in-the-sky version. There are two versions of Lightroom. Classic is the one which lives on your home computer.

Piximperfext on Youtube is a fantastic resource for Photoshop tutorials.
 
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My only reservation for a new subscriber is the variations on plans. The baseline photography plan in the UK is roughly GBP10 a month, or GBP120 if you pay in one go for a one year licence. Either way, you're on the hook for GBP120.00 for 12 months use and the 12 month contract WILL renew automatically unless you put a note in your diary to opt out.

There are valid complaints that people are only shown plans with lots of cloud storage for double/treble the baseline fee - BUT - if you dig, you should find the right place to sign up for the GBP120 annual/GBP10 per month version or whatever the US equivalent is (usually less than we pay) for the non-usb-stick-in-the-sky version. There are two versions of Lightroom. Classic is the one which lives on your home computer.

Piximperfext on Youtube is a fantastic resource for Photoshop tutorials.
The two plans I would choose from.
Subscribe to see EXIF info for this image (if available)
 

Mack

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I got a laugh out of the 1TB of free storage.

My upload speed isn't fast as I'm too far from their line amplifiers, about 128 kbps upload and download is about three times faster than the upload. Can't do Netflix, etc.

So from an online file transfer speed calculator ( File Download & Upload Time Calculator - Meridian Outpost ), it would take me about 1,909,722 hours to upload 1TB to Adobe's Cloud, or about 218 years. I might be able to download them off their server in a third of the time, or maybe 74 years.

Sometimes "The Cloud" ain't all cracked up for some who live in rural areas (And satellite will throttle down like a cellphone data plan overage.).

Guess I better get crackin' to upload all this stuff, except I got 5TB now on external drives. Maybe I'll get done in 1,090 years. :rofl:
 

Mikehit

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I got a laugh out of the 1TB of free storage.

My upload speed isn't fast as I'm too far from their line amplifiers, about 128 kbps upload and download is about three times faster than the upload. Can't do Netflix, etc.

So from an online file transfer speed calculator ( File Download & Upload Time Calculator - Meridian Outpost ), it would take me about 1,909,722 hours to upload 1TB to Adobe's Cloud, or about 218 years. I might be able to download them off their server in a third of the time, or maybe 74 years.

Sometimes "The Cloud" ain't all cracked up for some who live in rural areas (And satellite will throttle down like a cellphone data plan overage.).

Guess I better get crackin' to upload all this stuff, except I got 5TB now on external drives. Maybe I'll get done in 1,090 years. :rofl:
Scary maths!
I sorta thought about the cloud option as well but then reckoned I would never have the cloud as my only back up so decided that I would maintain hard back ups and load to the cloud any JPEG that I wanted to share....or maybe I will use Dropbox for that?
Anyway, I decided that I would get the Photography plan with just 20GBbut PS included.
 
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I am surprised that you find it odd that people react to bad or unethical practices by a monopoly or near-monopoly.
I'm not surprised people react.
I'm surprised people keep using Adobe software if they don't agree with Adobe policy.

Concerning the near monopoly situation, it seems that the "subscribtion only" turn in Adobe policy is a gift to all other companies that still sell perpetual licences, as it's their #1 marketing argument.

I personnally prefer perpetual licences, but I don't think see anything unethical about it.
They have an offer. If I like it, I pay. If I don't like it, I use something else.

Currently, considering all alternatives, I would pay much more than the 12€/month for Lightroom. Because I think their software is so much better for *my* use than any of the competitors.
However, the day it's "cloud only", I'm out.

Criticism can sometimes get entities to clean up their act.
You think Adobe cares about critics on forums?
Most of them are probably not even potential customers.
 

Replytoken

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Also I can’t see any evidence of Adobe spying on me, why would they, unless you are talking about checking the status on my installed apps so as to inform me that an update is available, I’m OK with that!
While Adobe may not be "spying" on you, they are scanning your images that are being processed in their Creative Cloud. My understanding is that images are tagged by Adobe, most likely in conjunction with their new AI product, Adobe Sensei, and that the information they are gathering is being used to improve the Sensei product.

Adobe Sensei | Unified artificial intelligence and machine learning

--Ken
 

Mikehit

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While Adobe may not be "spying" on you, they are scanning your images that are being processed in their Creative Cloud. My understanding is that images are tagged by Adobe, most likely in conjunction with their new AI product, Adobe Sensei, and that the information they are gathering is being used to improve the Sensei product.

Adobe Sensei | Unified artificial intelligence and machine learning

--Ken
I had (an admittedly quick) review of the link you posted and I could not find that they Sensei is doing unauthorised scanning of cloud images and putting that data in to a generalised database. Maybe I missed it but can you clarify your comments?
 

Replytoken

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I had (an admittedly quick) review of the link you posted and I could not find that they Sensei is doing unauthorised scanning of cloud images and putting that data in to a generalised database. Maybe I missed it but can you clarify your comments?
That link was just so people could get an understanding of Adobe Sensei. It did not talk about the tagging. That was a discussion that was in a very long thread at the old Lightroom Forums that are now being hosted under The Lightroom Queen domain. It involved a number of folks who were very intimate with LR CC and Adobe. The tagging is supposed to allow Adobe help you with AI image identification, but it is also allowing them to "learn" from scanning everybody's images. For AI to work with photographs, there has to be a base to work from.

--Ken
 
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