Bye, Bye, Lightroom ...

oldracer

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By definitions, I believe all companies are ethically challenged. They are the embodiment of (tens, hundreds, thousands, ... of) thousands of stockholders who, for the vast majority, just demand profit.
Too ignorant to be funny, unfortunately. Apparently you've never taken an Economics class. The stockholders have invested the money that allowed the company to prosper. Without those investments there is no company. Should the stockholders not receive a return on their investments? Do you seek out savings accounts that pay you no interest because you feel that to receive interest makes you "ethically challenged?"

Oh, and by the way, almost all of us are stockholders through our pension plans and retirement savings. So it is us that "demand profit."
 

Phoque

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Too ignorant to be funny, unfortunately. Apparently you've never taken an Economics class. The stockholders have invested the money that allowed the company to prosper. Without those investments there is no company. Should the stockholders not receive a return on their investments? Do you seek out savings accounts that pay you no interest because you feel that to receive interest makes you "ethically challenged?"

Oh, and by the way, almost all of us are stockholders through our pension plans and retirement savings. So it is us that "demand profit."
Can't help but feel the same about you. You are quick to assume about my ignorance, instead of trying to understand what I meant. Why so quick to judge? Perhaps because of personal insecurity or because it makes you feel smart? But, please, tell us yourself!

Almost all of my RSP, which I manage myself, are in the stock market; but yeah, I'm lazy about research so I mostly invest in indexed funds. I would agree I might have exaggerated, there are companies with a a social conscience. And I will admit to owning shares of companies who are badly ethically challenged, like Facebook; Facebook which would make Adobe look like an archangel on the ethical scale. I don't care much about Facebook's profits, if I could press a button to get rid of it from my indexed funds, I would.

So, back to our original case, Adobe is testing a pricing model and I have no issues with that. I feel milked by such a system, but some people who are real power users find value in it. To each his/her own way. I'm not happy with it, well, I stay away from it. Period.

Have you read a Random Walk Down Wall Street? I thought it was a great book.
 

oldracer

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... You are quick to assume about my ignorance, instead of trying to understand what I meant. Why so quick to judge? ...
Well, understanding the statement: "I believe all companies are ethically challenged." doesn't seem require a lot of effort. Why quick to judge? Easy. It's an ignorant statement. If you meant something more nuanced then you should have explained yourself in the post.

... Have you read a Random Walk Down Wall Street? I thought it was a great book.
Yes, several times. It is one of many investing books on my shelves. I teach an Adult-Ed investing class with special emphasis on helping younger people with their retirement savings investments. If you liked Malkiel, you might also like Charles Ellis' "Winning the Loser's Game." Or, for more depth, some of William Bernstein's more recent books like "Rational Expectations."
 
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One thing that may be happening is that they may be surprised and feel threatened by the number of LR workalike products that are hitting the market place. It seems like all of the raw processors are now adding DAM features and some are even developing import tools for LR data.
Yes, but it's one thing to say you have "DAM features" in your software, and an other thing to have a really working DAM & useful set of features.
And as for On1's import tool for LR data, it's currently a joke.

There's still a possibility that one of young LR competitors (I'm not talking about Capture One that is already in place) will end up with something viable one day, so I hope Adobe cares about the competition.
But I think that the competition will be first between all the LR contenders.
There are too many products, with a very low price, and a lot of them promise a lot more than they really deliver.
 
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I'll also add that most of the competitor seem to target the LR users that didn't want to go to the subscription model.
That means a lot of people, that probably sticked to LR5 or LR6 or even older, and that probably don't want to spend more than 70$ every 2 years for their photo software.
Adobe clearly don't care about them, so they are relatively "easy" targets.

But I'd be curious to know the number of Adobe subscription customers that stopped to go somewhere else.
If a contender emereges and begin to "steal" subscription customers from Adobe, that would begin to be a real risk for Adobe.

I'm not sure this is the case now (but as nodody has the real numbers from Adobe...).

Based on what I read on forums (which is probably not very accurate...), I think that Capture One does it a little.
But they have a very different model from the other competitors: they are (very) expensive and they have a long experience in RAW software development.
They have a pretty strong set of working features.

Personnally, I purchased DxO PhotoLab because of the black friday sale, and I purchased it as a complement (for a small fraction of my photos), not as a replacement.
There's no way it can currenly replace Lightroom for me, I'm not confident in their DAM development, but they have pretty strong algorithms and there's an easy way to handle the files from Lightroom (exporting as DNG to keep Lightroom colors and development potential).
 

Lcrunyon

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I'll also add that most of the competitor seem to target the LR users that didn't want to go to the subscription model.
That means a lot of people, that probably sticked to LR5 or LR6 or even older, and that probably don't want to spend more than 70$ every 2 years for their photo software.
Adobe clearly don't care about them, so they are relatively "easy" targets.

But I'd be curious to know the number of Adobe subscription customers that stopped to go somewhere else.
If a contender emereges and begin to "steal" subscription customers from Adobe, that would begin to be a real risk for Adobe.

I'm not sure this is the case now (but as nodody has the real numbers from Adobe...).

Based on what I read on forums (which is probably not very accurate...), I think that Capture One does it a little.
But they have a very different model from the other competitors: they are (very) expensive and they have a long experience in RAW software development.
They have a pretty strong set of working features.

Personnally, I purchased DxO PhotoLab because of the black friday sale, and I purchased it as a complement (for a small fraction of my photos), not as a replacement.
There's no way it can currenly replace Lightroom for me, I'm not confident in their DAM development, but they have pretty strong algorithms and there's an easy way to handle the files from Lightroom (exporting as DNG to keep Lightroom colors and development potential).
I agree with all this. I've considered adding DXO Prime as a plugin to Lightroom because many people have said that its noise reduction is exceptionally good, but I haven't come across enough evidence to pull the trigger yet.
 
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In some cases where I want to recover some data in the shadows, or high ISO images, the difference is quite huge.
I had some underexposed 6400 ISO images for which dxo did great.
The default settings are much too high for my taste, but after a little testing I found some settings that works very well (for me).

Note that even if you don't want to use huge DNG files, you can now select DCP color profiles in DxO, which allows you to get consistent colors with Ligthroom. (I thought it won't work well, but it does).
 

RichardC

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Come on how are Adobe trying to deceive it’s customers??
You should explain!
This. You pay your sub you get the latest most up to date version of the software. You decide to stop using it, you don't pay anymore. A bit like buying electricity, but at least there are viable alternative software providers should you wish to jump ship.
 

Giiba

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How are they being deceptive? I don't use their products but I've never felt deceived by them.
This:
Adobe... has random Creative Cloud snoopware running that is questionable
My Dad uses CC and it is no end of troubles for me to troubleshoot as each update causes new problems and the updater is horribly inefficient (or doing that much spying :confused:). Just saying I have yet to meet a Windows machine that doesn't run better with Adobe software removed. I've never thought about using their software for this reason, and I think if there is deception going on it is Adobe distracting with pricing plans from whatever they are really doing.

[/tinfoilhat]
 

D7k1

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If you don't like the free market you don't have to participate. And there are countries like China and Russia that don't have a free market economy you can move to. There are always choices except for dying.
 

Mike G

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In all the years that I’ve been using CC, I have never had any problems updating the software!
Also I can’t see any evidence of Adobe spying on me, why would they, unless you are talking about checking the status on my installed apps so as to inform me that an update is available, I’m OK with that!
 
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Adobe may deceive some customers but it's very doubtful that they try or want to deceive them.

I guess most customers are happy with their products otherwise why would they still be paying for them?
I don't find lightroom perfect but I'm pretty happy with it...
 

Lcrunyon

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I don’t have a single problem with Adobe slowing down my iMac or MacBook Pro, and the updater has always worked without a hitch. I haven’t come across a bug yet in over 2 years, and as I said earlier, Adobe provides updates several times a month. Having a ton of pics on the drive can slow it down, but not the software itself. So, I keep my library on a RAID array, leaving the computers running as if they were brand new.
 

tkbslc

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Too ignorant to be funny, unfortunately. Apparently you've never taken an Economics class. The stockholders have invested the money that allowed the company to prosper. Without those investments there is no company. Should the stockholders not receive a return on their investments? Do you seek out savings accounts that pay you no interest because you feel that to receive interest makes you "ethically challenged?"

Oh, and by the way, almost all of us are stockholders through our pension plans and retirement savings. So it is us that "demand profit."
It is not ethically challenged to demand profit. It is ethically challenged to demand immediate profit above all else. That's what keeps creating ethical dilemmas for CEOs.
 

Mack

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Some aren't happy with Adobe syncing their files to the Cloud.


I understand why the Hollywood editing pros don't use Adobe software with it being unsecured while on the internet, and possible lawsuits of theft of intellectual property from their computer so their editing bays are not tied to the internet at all. It's why they use Blackmagic's Davinci Resolve Studio which can run independent of being tied the internet.

Fwiw, I've noticed mine slowing way down (Windows 10) when on the internet when Adobe launches in the background. I finally downloaded their Creative Cloud uninstaller and got rid of it.

Aside, I also got tissues with Windows 10 too updating to version 1809 (Twice now! Once in Oct. and again with their Dec. 1809 update repeat.) which trashed my computer with a black screen with some fatal error 0x00000001 "Must reinstall Windows" message on booting up. Had to reinstall everything from scratch. Couldn't access any Cloud backups either as it was 100% dead to the web. When MS screws up they do it good.
 

Turbofrog

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It is not ethically challenged to demand profit. It is ethically challenged to demand immediate profit above all else. That's what keeps creating ethical dilemmas for CEOs.
Absolutely true, and very well stated.

Furthermore, it's very deceptive to say that "almost all of us are stockholders." Only about half of all Americans have any stake in the stock market at all, and for many it is exclusively through their retirement plans, so that exposure is often beyond their realization, and for most the specific choices of that stock mix are beyond their individual control. To further contrast that, 84% of all wealth in the stock market is owned by just 10% of individuals.

Saying that, "this is the way the system is, therefore this is the way the system must be. Thus Spake Economics 101!" is intellectually dishonest to begin with, and the condescending response is not justified.
 

oldracer

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... Furthermore, it's very deceptive to say that "almost all of us are stockholders." Only about half of all Americans have any stake in the stock market at all, and for many it is exclusively through their retirement plans, so that exposure is often beyond their realization, and for most the specific choices of that stock mix are beyond their individual control. To further contrast that, 84% of all wealth in the stock market is owned by just 10% of individuals. ...
Links to some data, please.

Edit: The reason I ask is because your 84%/10% figure is inconsistent with the commonly-cited figure that passive funds own about 40% of the US market cap. I guess it could be true if the definition of "individual" includes individual mutual funds like the Vanguard Total Stock Market Index Fund. In that case, though, the 84/10 is quite misleading.
 
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