Buying into a new system..oh the anxiety!

Mack

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I'm investing in Nikon FF gear at present. Don't care for Sony's ergonomics or Canon's.

Sony Service is also less than stellar and now they have a class action lawsuit against them for their shutters failing prematurely on the A7 III where they catch internally on some lip and blow apart costing the owner $500+ for their design fault. Not crazy about them changing gear so quick either, just move on and maybe abandon prior gear or mistakes.

So far the Z7 II has been impressive against all others with regards to the newer Nikon optics in their 'Holy Trinity' zooms (i.e. 14-24mm, 24-70mm, 70-200mm f/2.8 S-series). It actually is lighter and smaller than the E-M1X I have, but the E-M1X is a tank of a camera too. Sadly, I find I am picking up the E-M1X less than the Z7 II now because of the smaller size, weight, and higher image resolution (cropability). However, the Olympus IBIS/IS still beats all the FF guys, imho. Canon's claim of 8 stops of stabilization makes for interesting marketing, but I'd call it 2-3 stops at best from some of the online videos of the R5/6. Nikon is about the same too.

Thing with Nikon is they seem to just put enough gear out there and not flood the seller's shelves which can be taxing for buyers. Very tight on quantity which might be their new business plan. You wait for some things, like I need a spare EN-EL15C battery but they've been back-ordered for 2 months now. The Z7 II body took 3 months to acquire, but faster than my old D800E which took 5 months and some wih their D800 were a year when it intro'd. The new Z-mount 70-200mm f/2.8 was BO'd for some months too as was their 500mm PF F-mount lens that some waited a year for. Plus, they just reduced the USA lens warranty from 5 year to 1 year beginning this year. I've only had to have one Nikon lens fixed in the past, and it happened right out of the box (Refused to focus to infinity.). Other than that, no lens issues other than slight AF tuning issues over time which I can do with the help of Reikan FoCal software (Olympus should provide them with a SDK to allow that software to tune the 25 AF tuning areas in the Oly bodies, imho!)..

Good luck in the hunt.
 

dwkdnvr

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Yeah, have spent some time getting caught in the churn myself and also concluded that while there probably aren't any bad cameras/systems, there also is no easy answer. I thought it would be a simple process - find something that replaces my basic setup - E-M5II, 12-100, PL15, Sigma 30, Sigma 56. i.e. body, general purpose zoom, and the 3 primes covering the basic FLs (more or less). Not too expensive, and not too big.

If unease about the future of Olympus and M43 is at least a part of why I'm considering a switch, then does market stability factor into a target system decision as well? If it does, then realistically Canon and Sony would have to be the only 'safe bets' at the moment. L-Mount is new and hasn't exactly caught fire, and Nikon's financial questions are well known. It's pretty certain Nikon will continue to exist in some form given the installed base and history, but if Z development stalls the platform might not be the best choice. Sony ergonomics are terrible - had an A7II briefly and ditched it since I didn't like using it. Canon looks great, but the R6 is only 20MP and is $500 more than any competitor.

The Panny S5 is probably the best looking camera to me for all-round hybrid use, but the L-mount lens lineup still isn't there yet and who knows whether the system will be successful enough long-term. The cheap Panny zooms (20-60 and 70-300) plus the 1.8 primes (when they get here) seems to be about the least expensive and lightest equivalent to my current system, but even there it's a $5k system price and the S5 is still bigger than the E-M5II *with* full battery grip.

The Z5 is the best looking entry-level camera for stills in many ways, but video ability is relatively poor, and burst shooting etc has been compromised (although probably still ok for most things). The 24-200 looks interesting - maybe the only real competitor to the Oly 12-100, and the Z 1.8 primes seem to be very well regarded and aren't horribly priced. Lots of F-mount glass available to adapt if needed. The Z6II being only ~$500 more might be a better long-term choice, though. Z5 kit + 3 primes is well under $5k, but if you go Z6II you're probably back at the $5k level.

Fuji? My wife has an X-T1 and so consolidating systems would seem to be attractive. I don't really get along with Fuji ergonomics though, and the lens lineup seems a bit scattershot. The 18-135 isn't really up to being a replacement for the 12-100 IMHO, and the 16-55/2.8 is big and heavy and doesn't have the reach. The F/2 primes look pretty good, but everything faster is pricey and big. IBIS is a problem - you're limited to the X-T4 or X-H1 if you want weather sealing. If the X-S10 were weather sealed, I probably would already have one, though.

So, the rational conclusions are clear, but somehow I can't stop picking at the scab
- My M43 setup covers all the bases and there really isn't any reason I 'need' to do anything (particularly since I also have the GX85 2-lens kit)
- Any FF setup is going to be $5k for just the basics, and will be bigger and heavier - substantially so if you ever want a 2.8 zoom
- there are unknowns with basically any system at the moment
- the right answer is almost certainly to use my existing gear as long as it fits my needs

So, I decide to stay with M43. But then I think that maybe getting the E-M1MkII body that I've considered for a while makes sense. But, if I'm going to spend money on camera gear maybe I should think about where it is best spent and whether a different system might work...........
 

AmritR

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...

Thing with Nikon is they seem to just put enough gear out there and not flood the seller's shelves which can be taxing for buyers. Very tight on quantity which might be their new business plan. You wait for some things, like I need a spare EN-EL15C battery but they've been back-ordered for 2 months now. The Z7 II body took 3 months to acquire, but faster than my old D800E which took 5 months and some wih their D800 were a year when it intro'd. The new Z-mount 70-200mm f/2.8 was BO'd for some months too as was their 500mm PF F-mount lens that some waited a year for. ..
Nikons main issue for decades; being able to actually shove the boxes and deliver the goods. If someone is going to write a unofficial Nikon history, the main story line will be about missed sales because of missing inventory.

Reminds me of a book by Terry Pratchett with a devil running a small bookshop in London, but actually not really wanting to sell any of the books because it’s more like a personal collection. So his main concern is getting customers out of the bookshop as fast as possible, without a sell.

So basically what I’m saying is that Nikon MT are a bunch of demonic camera collectors.
(getting a bit carried away here)
 

Mack

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Nikons main issue for decades; being able to actually shove the boxes and deliver the goods. If someone is going to write a unofficial Nikon history, the main story line will be about missed sales because of missing inventory.

....
Yep, agree with all of that.

What really surprised me with the Z7 II, FTZ adapter, and 24-70mm f/2.8 S-series lens was all three arrived with the latest firmware installed from the factory. The stuff arrived early March from B&H Photo, and Nikon released all three firmware updates for the three items just a couple of weeks prior (Late February) so I thought I'd have some updating to do, but all three were updated already even given the shipping distances and time.

So Nikon had to be installing latest firmware updates prior to their latest web release of the firmware to the public. I was a bit worried about their shift of manufacturing to Thailand and maybe some hiccups. Oh well, least the stuff is "factory new" and hasn't been sitting on a shelf someplace for some time and in need of an update as with some of my Olympus gear which has been a version or two behind at times from sitting someplace..
 

RS86

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So, I decide to stay with M43. But then I think that maybe getting the E-M1MkII body that I've considered for a while makes sense. But, if I'm going to spend money on camera gear maybe I should think about where it is best spent and whether a different system might work...........
I was going to suggest that keep using your system if it gives you the results you need. That is the cheapest option no matter what, even if OMDS goes bust. While there is still Panasonic.

And like you say here, you have an upgrade path for a long time. E-M1ii is great and pretty cheap bought used. That is the cheapest upgrade for you, and will give a nice boost in many areas. And even now you have the option to upgrade after E-M1ii to E-M1iii when that time comes.

While we of course hope that OMDS will release more cameras in the near future, and I currently believe they will.

Like someone else mentioned, I would personally never consider Fuji because of my love for Dxo Photolab, which doesn't support Fuji sensors. And DeepPrime mitigates some of that bigger sensor advantage, while Topaz Denoise AI is not quite as good and needs a separate program.
 

Keeth101

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You use your Oly cameras for both work and pleasure so you know them inside out and are happy with the results.

So why would you want to change to another brand and have to learn all the differences etc. etc. etc. ( and buy into a completely different lens system too)

Just go and buy the Oly camera of your dreams and your only decision to then make is whether to use it for business or pleasure.
 

bbarnett51

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Jan 23, 2015
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I took a few out from my local shop and tested different lenses. All were great. The Sony eye tracking is insane.

However I went with 2 Fuji XT4s, 56 1.2, 23 f2 bc i love small 35mm primes, and 16-55 2.8. I’ll be adding the 100-400 and probably the 18-55 2.8-4. It would be used as my small travel do it all lens. The 16-55 is heavy but I need it for weddings and events.
 

bbarnett51

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Very initial thoughts. My new XT4s aren’t built as well as my Olympus. I don’t have any real complaints but the Oly definitely feels better built. The battery door on the XT4 is weak and the entire bottom is cheap plastic. The side coverings have a nice fit and the weather sealing seems decent. The rest of the camera has a premium feel though. The weather sealing also is done really well. Lots of coverage by the gaskets. I do not like the grip as much. Anyone who has held an xt4 knows that the camera doesn’t have much of a grip. We will see how I get used to it. My last negative is something I knew but had forgotten. There is no battery charger! You have to charge the battery by USB-C through the body. So dumb. I’ll have to spend the money on a charger now.
The positives so far: the EVF! Wow I didn’t realize how much I would appreciate the improved EVF. It’s significantly better. Although I didn’t have a problem with the Oly menu system, the Fuji menu is awesome. It’s one of the easiest cameras to pick up and use. I’ve read mixed reviews on the menu system but to me it’s super easy to understand and navigate. This might sound dumb but the included camera strap I’d easily the most comfortable stock strap I’ve usedZ I actually might keep it on over my Black Rapid straps. I appreciate the detail on that! More to come as more of my lenses start to come in next week.
 
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My last negative is something I knew but had forgotten. There is no battery charger! You have to charge the battery by USB-C through the body. So dumb. I’ll have to spend the money on a charger now.
I'm currently (again) closely watching an X-Pro3 offer and your warning is true indeed: Fujifilm stopped to include any charger at all with all their new cameras offering in-body charging via USB-C. Maybe I'm too oldschool, but I still prefer a dedicated, external battery charger over pure in-camera charging, while the latter sure can come handy and convenient, I simply don't see it as an replacement. While I could understand Fujifilm doing so for more affordable models, like their newest XE4, I think it's a shame they also do this for their most expensive flagship cameras. I get it that phone companies are also stopping to pack USB wall-chargers with their smartphones, since a lot of people have their own laying around somewhere, but those are generic items and not dedicated chargers for specialized batteries.

I'm also not sure which charger to get, there are a number of 3rd party chargers, however I want to stick with genuine batteries. The official Fujifilm chargers, at least around here, are pretty much out of stock and cost more than an actual battery. So there aren't many choices than going with a 3rd party one.
In sincerely hope other camera brands (OMDS, I'm looking at you!) won't follow this disappointing scheme.
 

Robstar1963

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Very initial thoughts. My new XT4s aren’t built as well as my Olympus. I don’t have any real complaints but the Oly definitely feels better built. The battery door on the XT4 is weak and the entire bottom is cheap plastic. The side coverings have a nice fit and the weather sealing seems decent. The rest of the camera has a premium feel though. The weather sealing also is done really well. Lots of coverage by the gaskets. I do not like the grip as much. Anyone who has held an xt4 knows that the camera doesn’t have much of a grip. We will see how I get used to it. My last negative is something I knew but had forgotten. There is no battery charger! You have to charge the battery by USB-C through the body. So dumb. I’ll have to spend the money on a charger now.
The positives so far: the EVF! Wow I didn’t realize how much I would appreciate the improved EVF. It’s significantly better. Although I didn’t have a problem with the Oly menu system, the Fuji menu is awesome. It’s one of the easiest cameras to pick up and use. I’ve read mixed reviews on the menu system but to me it’s super easy to understand and navigate. This might sound dumb but the included camera strap I’d easily the most comfortable stock strap I’ve usedZ I actually might keep it on over my Black Rapid straps. I appreciate the detail on that! More to come as more of my lenses start to come in next week.
Get a Smallrig bracket for a very much improved but subtle grip
 

mawz

Mu-43 Veteran
Joined
Mar 2, 2013
Messages
243
Very initial thoughts. My new XT4s aren’t built as well as my Olympus. I don’t have any real complaints but the Oly definitely feels better built. The battery door on the XT4 is weak and the entire bottom is cheap plastic. The side coverings have a nice fit and the weather sealing seems decent. The rest of the camera has a premium feel though. The weather sealing also is done really well. Lots of coverage by the gaskets. I do not like the grip as much. Anyone who has held an xt4 knows that the camera doesn’t have much of a grip. We will see how I get used to it. My last negative is something I knew but had forgotten. There is no battery charger! You have to charge the battery by USB-C through the body. So dumb. I’ll have to spend the money on a charger now.
The positives so far: the EVF! Wow I didn’t realize how much I would appreciate the improved EVF. It’s significantly better. Although I didn’t have a problem with the Oly menu system, the Fuji menu is awesome. It’s one of the easiest cameras to pick up and use. I’ve read mixed reviews on the menu system but to me it’s super easy to understand and navigate. This might sound dumb but the included camera strap I’d easily the most comfortable stock strap I’ve usedZ I actually might keep it on over my Black Rapid straps. I appreciate the detail on that! More to come as more of my lenses start to come in next week.

It's worth noting that the X-T4 EVF is nothing to write home about. It's the second-best crop EVF (after the G9), but it's inferior to even the Z5. Only the lower-end Sony's (A7III and below) and the EOS RP don't offer a superior EVF to the X-T3/4 in terms of cameras at a similar price point.

That speaks more to how long Olympus has been peddling the same basic EVF (only minor changes since 2013's E-M1) than to how good Fuji is (it was a world-beater on the X-H1 in early 2018 but time has moved on since) but again, Fuji's been peddling that setup for a while, albeit only about 3 years now vs 8 for Olympus.

Fuji's base menu is very good (and they don't move stuff around randomly between bodies, unlike Nikon), but the Q menu is a crippled mess compared to the SCP.

The Smallrig L-brackets do wonders for the X-T handling in my opinion. A must-have and reasonably priced, especially compared to the RRS stuff.

Note that the X-T4 is USB-C PD capable, so is extremely quick to charge the battery in-camera if used with a high-wattage USB-C PD adapter (like a MacBook or Lenovo USB-C power brick). You should find it notably faster than the Olympus external chargers if you give it enough power. The optional charger is also USB-C PD and a dual charger, and also quite reasonably priced. Yes, that means the Fuji charger can charge off a USB-C power brick, a unique feature in a 1st party charger (and much faster than any of the 3rd party USB chargers except the iSDT Sony charger)
 
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