Body only not available?

Brownie

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Tim, you brought up the $$$ comparison with the G95 and G9. I think @CyVan was just pointing out a reason why someone might opt of the G95 instead of the G9 when the $$$ are so close.
Well, we were originally talking price point. If we make the leap to features and discuss video or photos, then you have to include the GH5. In either case, the top body can be yours for a little more than the G95 with the kit lens. That being the case, I think one would be more likely to buy the GH5 if the lens isn't a consideration.
 

Mike Wingate

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There is an £80 difference in price for a new G9 and G90 in the U.K. at the moment.
 

Wasabi Bob

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I'm not sure what you're saying here. Just to clarify I too wondered with the G95 price so high why would someone take it over a G9. But someone pointed out that the G95 doesn't have recording limits for video while the G9 does (30mins 4K 30, 10mins 4K60). So for long form video like an interview or event the G95 would be better to get if you can't afford a GH5.
I know some of the Panasonic marketing people very well. They explained, "So after GH5 came out, you had two groups of people complaining, The still shooters and the videographers. Neither liked the fact they had to pay premium cost for a camera in which they were only interested in one format (stills or video). That motivated two new models, the G9 geared for still shooters and the GH5S aimed at the videographers. While each model can shoot both modes, each is optimized for their respective targeted modes. G9 obviously has a lesser amount of heat dissipation ability which likely imposed the recording limitations. For the still shooters, the limitation was not an issue. Video shooters did not need a 20+ MP image sensor, so the GH5S has lesser MP sen sor with a dual native ISO - exactly what the video shooters wanted."

If those of you here shoot both video and stills, GH5 is what you need to consider. Otherwise, you choose between GH5S or G9. One size shoe will not fit every person.
 

CyVan

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I know some of the Panasonic marketing people very well. They explained, "So after GH5 came out, you had two groups of people complaining, The still shooters and the videographers. Neither liked the fact they had to pay premium cost for a camera in which they were only interested in one format (stills or video). That motivated two new models, the G9 geared for still shooters and the GH5S aimed at the videographers. While each model can shoot both modes, each is optimized for their respective targeted modes. G9 obviously has a lesser amount of heat dissipation ability which likely imposed the recording limitations. For the still shooters, the limitation was not an issue. Video shooters did not need a 20+ MP image sensor, so the GH5S has lesser MP sen sor with a dual native ISO - exactly what the video shooters wanted."

If those of you here shoot both video and stills, GH5 is what you need to consider. Otherwise, you choose between GH5S or G9. One size shoe will not fit every person.
That actually makes sense. Tho I suspect with the hack that worked on the G9 up to firmware 1.2 you could get unlimited record times w/o it overheating. I suspect it might be an artificial limitation just for differentiation. However, that's always been my plan, get a G9 for mostly stills but if I ever got very serious about video I'd get a GH5S and a gimbal after.
 

Wasabi Bob

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That actually makes sense. Tho I suspect with the hack that worked on the G9 up to firmware 1.2 you could get unlimited record times w/o it overheating...
CyVan, the recording restrictions exist largely due to G9's inability to properly dissipate the heat generated by the image sensor. From the time I've spent repairing them I've seen several come in with "toasted" sensors. What most people do not realize is that the camera maintains a permanent log that Service accesses when a camera comes in. While this won't happen instantly, I've seen only a few hours of recording do permanent damage. Defeating the limit will also void your warranty. Aside from the 29:59 limit on EU models, for tax purposes, why would Panasonic intentionally limit the recording time?
 

CyVan

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CyVan, the recording restrictions exist largely due to G9's inability to properly dissipate the heat generated by the image sensor. From the time I've spent repairing them I've seen several come in with "toasted" sensors. What most people do not realize is that the camera maintains a permanent log that Service accesses when a camera comes in. While this won't happen instantly, I've seen only a few hours of recording do permanent damage. Defeating the limit will also void your warranty. Aside from the 29:59 limit on EU models, for tax purposes, why would Panasonic intentionally limit the recording time?
They could have been taking a canon-esque approach in differentiating the G9 from the GH5 and other more video-centric cameras in the line.
HOWEVER , thats some very good info. It's good to hear it from someone with actual first hand experience of it and it also validates that they weren't being disingenuous when they stated overheating as a reason for the limits. I've always tended to trust Panasonic.

I'm surprised that it still wouldn't have overheat protection before it gets to the point of it getting toasted though. Is it they're assuming that within normal operating parameters it should never overheat anyways or does putting it into permanent service mode disable the overheat protection as well? That actually brings up an interesting point. Do any of the Panasonic cameras actually have the capability to display overheat warnings? We've always heard that Panasonic cameras don't overheat; Is that true or is it that, unlike Sony , Panasonic doesn't display any outward signs of when it is overheating or protects against it?

Out of curiousity, other than that toasted sensor what are the major issues you usually see them come in for?
 
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Wasabi Bob

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From what I was told and from my personal experience, under the worst anticipated shooting conditions, the camera can safely operate within the designed parameters. When a product is properly designed such operating specs are usually conservatively rated which contribute to the overall reliability. And to answer your question, yes there is an over temp warning message, but I’ve only seen it one time during a service seminar.

“Out of curiosity, other than that toasted sensor what are the major issues you usually see them come in for?”

I really can’t comment on what I saw during that time, but for the most part there was a lot of customer inflicted issues – dropping, water damage and that sort of thing. Panasonic seems to be ahead of the service issues – lots of service update bulletins to check certain things before it becomes a problem.
 

D7k1

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Unless you are shooting a play or some other long event 5 minutes is an eternity. And if you find you need to shoot long you just HDMI out a recorder. Unlimited recording is a specialized use of a video camera IMHO. G9 is far and above any other Pany still camera, even my beloved Gx8. I shoot a lot of video and can tell you that even 2 or 3 minutes is a long piece. And for stuff like shows or moives when was the last time you saw such a long cut? Or ever interviewed someone longer than 5 or 10 minutes without breaking?
 

CyVan

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Nice :)
Well that allays my fears further.
I really can’t comment on what I saw during that time, but for the most part there was a lot of customer inflicted issues – dropping, water damage and that sort of thing. Panasonic seems to be ahead of the service issues – lots of service update bulletins to check certain things before it becomes a problem.
How well built do the G9's appear to you compared to the rest of the line? In terms of relative drop resistance etc? as u can see in my footer I have a number of the bodies :p
P.S. Sorry about the grilling but its fascinating to talk to an actual subject matter expert :)
 

tkbslc

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That really doesn't mean anything. Like saying you should be able to sell a Rokinon 85mm f/1.4 for $1200 because that's what the Sigma 85mm f/1.4 sells for (same numerical "specs") or $1500 because the Canon sells an 85mm f/1.4 for that much.
Is the 12-60 an off-brand manual focus lens? Not sure where you dug up that comparison.

I've owned the 12-60 and a Canon 15-85, FWIW.
 

tkbslc

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You're missing the point of how trying to say the Panasonic should be worth as much as the Canon just because they because they share the same focal range. Apples and oranges.
I didn't ever say it should be worth as much as the Canon or Nikon. I was using that as an example of how it could reasonably be worth the $499 MSRP, given that other brands have charged even more for very similar lenses.

I also don't really see how a 24-120mm equivalent f3.5-5.6 crop sensor zoom is apples and a 24-127mm equivalent f3.5-5.6 crop sensor zoom is oranges.
 

KBeezie

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I didn't ever say it should be worth as much as the Canon or Nikon. I was using that as an example of how it could reasonably be worth the $499 MSRP, given that other brands have charged even more for very similar lenses.

I also don't really see how a 24-120mm equivalent f3.5-5.6 crop sensor zoom is apples and a 24-127mm equivalent f3.5-5.6 crop sensor zoom is oranges.
Lens construction, glass quality, element arrangement, etc. There's more than just the focal length and aperture range.
 
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Samy's Camera, an authorized dealer (they have multiple stores in CA), is currently offering an open box DC-G95 for $997 (with full warranty - you can extend it to 3 years by registering the camera with Panasonic) on eBay.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Panasonic-Lumix-DC-G95-Mirrorless-Camera-w-12-60mm-Lens-Open-Box/163811631868?epid=28032514393&hash=item2623ef22fc:g:f28AAOSwf4ldTiBF

I have purchased multiple items (GM1, G9, etc.) from Samy's and never had an issue. Buy the kit and sell off the 12-60 lens.
 

Wasabi Bob

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Samy's Camera, an authorized dealer (they have multiple stores in CA), is currently offering an open box DC-G95 for $997 (with full warranty - you can extend it to 3 years by registering the camera with Panasonic) on eBay.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Panasonic-Lumix-DC-G95-Mirrorless-Camera-w-12-60mm-Lens-Open-Box/163811631868?epid=28032514393&hash=item2623ef22fc:g:f28AAOSwf4ldTiBF

I have purchased multiple items (GM1, G9, etc.) from Samy's and never had an issue. Buy the kit and sell off the 12-60 lens.
From personal experience, an "open box" sale will be rejected. I suspect the reason is that "open box" usually means its a returned unit "customer remorse".
 
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