Best way to shoot U11 Soccer?

Discussion in 'Olympus Cameras' started by DizzyV6P, May 8, 2014.

  1. DizzyV6P

    DizzyV6P Mu-43 Regular

    141
    Apr 13, 2012
    Maryland
    I have an E-M5 and currently use Shutter priority, set at 1/500, auto ISO, S-AF, and High Speed bursts. I know E-M5 is notoriously bad with tracking C-AF but I haven't had a chance to try this yet. I'm about to use the Sports setting on the dial this weekend. I'll be shooting with a Panasonic 45-200 lens.
    I've shot two games already with mixed results. I miss my Canon 40D! LOL. I went as far as looking at a Sony Nex-6 and their hybrid PDAF system as another option. Nikon 1 is also another option.

    Any tips on other settings to use would be greatly appreciated!

    Thanks!

    Dizzy
     
  2. T N Args

    T N Args Agent Photocateur

    Dec 3, 2013
    Adelaide, Australia
    call me Arg
    OK.... if you haven't been using continuous AF, what do you think is causing the mixed results?

    If shooting at 200mm and moving the camera, I might try faster than 1/500.....
     
  3. gryphon1911

    gryphon1911 Mu-43 Hall of Famer

    Mar 13, 2014
    Central Ohio, USA
    Andrew
    Get the right tool for the job.

    If you want to stay mirrorless...your best bet at this point is most likely going to be a Nikon 1.

    However, nothing yet beats an honest to goodness DSLR with an optical viewfinder and a fast focusing lens for shooting sports. Even an entry level DLSR with good glass will function more to your need.

    I love my EM5, too, but I'm not going to run out and expect it not to be frustrating shooting sports.
     
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  4. marcsitkin

    marcsitkin Mu-43 Veteran

    307
    Jan 24, 2013
    Harwich, MA USA
    Marc Sitkin
    I'd suggest you try S-AF, and not shoot long bursts. I'd also get the shutter speed up higher, especially for longer focal lengths.

    You didn't say what the symptoms were of your problem. If it's locking in focus, you might have better results with a faster lens. Lot's of variables shooting sports. I to tend to shoot with DSLR in those instances, and have gotten higher ratios of keepers, but it's always lots of wasted shots until I get in the zone, which can take some time.
     
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  5. Jan68

    Jan68 Mu-43 Regular

    50
    Mar 1, 2014
    Ontario
    I shoot professional soccer for over 15 years, and this is the only reason to keep my Canon DSLR. My E-M5 is fantastic, but not the right tool for fast sports like soccer.

    Here some facts how to shoot soccer: Shutter-speed is minimum 1/500, aperture is set to 2.8. Your setting for many stadiums (evening games) will be 500 2.8 at ISO 800. If you have more light (daylight, better stadium lighting) lower the ISO speed and/or use faster shutter-speed, stay with f/2.8. If you have less light, push the ISO speed, do not go slower then 1/400 shutter-speed (and even with 1/400 the ball might be an egg, not round anymore). Highest burst-rate of course, faster is better.

    You already push the limits of the micro 4/3 camera here, the high ISO-speeds and the lens-choices will be a problem. Also the autofocus-system and the viewfinder...... In soccer you have your eye on the viewfinder at all times, you anticipate the action and push the trigger before it happens. If you see the scene in your viewfinder you are already too late to take the photo.......

    Sitting close to the corner flag, you will work with 2 cameras. "The" soccer lens is the 400 2.8, a 300 2.8 is OK but not ideal. Your second body will be equipped with a 70-200 2.8. Cameras on manual settings and continuous autofocus.

    Some guys might do it different, but if you want fast, reliable results from a soccer match you will do it this way. All professional agency photographers I know would confirm that. If you have more bodies and lenses, you will have one in (behind) the goal with a 16-35 mounted (same settings, remote controlled), and another one on your lap because soccer players like to run to the corner flag in jubilation (again, same camera settings).

    Regards,

    Jan
     
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  6. John M Flores

    John M Flores Mu-43 All-Pro

    Jan 7, 2011
    Somerville, NJ
  7. DizzyV6P

    DizzyV6P Mu-43 Regular

    141
    Apr 13, 2012
    Maryland
    Thank you Jan for the suggestions. I'll give it a shot on Saturday :smile:
    BHphoto has a sale with the J1, 10-30 and 30-110 for $299. It's tempting as a cheap option to use and still retain my E-M5 system.

    Some examples.

    This had focusing issues. Someone mentioned the problems that the E-M5 has with dealing with objects coming toward you so I assume this is the issue here.

    p489612643-3.

    The high speed setting is the only way I can get these shots. A burst of 5-10 shots and pray one is in focus.

    p509239341-3.

    Goal! Too bad it was against our team.
    p82984684-3.

    Getting a bit physical near the end of the game.
    p232020671-3.
     
  8. marcr1230

    marcr1230 Mu-43 Regular

    149
    Nov 28, 2013
    Here's my conclusions from a similar thread re the E-M1 (which has PDAF) , basically there are ways to get as good as you can
    but you will not reach the ease and success rate of a 5 year old DSLR

    https://www.mu-43.com/showthread.php?t=62772

     
    • Like Like x 1
  9. T N Args

    T N Args Agent Photocateur

    Dec 3, 2013
    Adelaide, Australia
    call me Arg
    GH4? Looks like the real deal.

    Those lenses Jan recommended are ridiculous for the hobbyist, you'll be $10,000 down before you start and you will be hardly any better because of the skill component still missing.

    You know what a pro shooter spends on kit for an assignment that makes no money? $0.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  10. usayit

    usayit Mu-43 Hall of Famer

    Love my EM5 but I agreeā€¦. its not the tool for sports. Fortunately, I don't' shoot sports often.

    * High speed burst.
    * IS on the lens (100-300 or 35-100). IS on body off.
    * My 35-100 is noticeably faster at AF so I switch to it when I can.
    * S-AF
    * Small focus point
    * Touch screen on LCD to move the focus point
    * Set the EVF to high refresh/sampling rate. It does help with AF too.
    * I turn off the auto EVF/ LCD switching because there is a momentary pause when I bring the camera to eye level.
    * "Pump" shutter AF and fire.

    C-AF only works if you are shooting with a large DOF (small aperture and wide).
     
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  11. Jan68

    Jan68 Mu-43 Regular

    50
    Mar 1, 2014
    Ontario
    True, makes no sense for the hobbyist, I agree. But it was more about the settings then the lenses, and to show why amateur stadium photos will never look like this:

    ImageUploadedByMu-431399599183.117144.

    The OP has a 40D? Paired with a decent 70-200, a bit know how and some practice he can produce good soccer photos. I doubt that he can do it with the E-M5.

    Jan
     
  12. zlatko-photo

    zlatko-photo Mu-43 Veteran

    228
    Jan 8, 2014
    Some hobbyists are big spenders. A hobbyist that I know is considering buying the Sigma 120-300/2.8 ($3600) to photograph his kids' sports. He almost bought a 1DX, but then found a good deal on a used 1DIV.

    I agree about DSLRs being best for sports like soccer. I've tried to photograph kids' soccer with my E-M1, but I just can't get the autofocus performance that I can from my Canon DSLRs. It's not bad, but it's just not at the same level. Maybe the GH4?
     
  13. PatrickNSF

    PatrickNSF Mu-43 Regular

    119
    Sep 30, 2011
    San Francisco, CA
    Patrick
    I used your suggestions from that thread with some success to shoot middle school futsal, though my keeper rate was lower than what I was accustomed to with my old Sony A77. I was using the 12-40/2.8 and struggling with the 75/1.8. I also shoot middle school cross country in the Fall (all for home use). Not sure how things will pan out with the upcoming 40-150/2.8, but my experience has me considering repurchasing one or two of my former Sony lenses. I'd sold the A77 as well, but that transaction ended up falling through.
     
  14. T N Args

    T N Args Agent Photocateur

    Dec 3, 2013
    Adelaide, Australia
    call me Arg
    I still think the OP deserves better advice than 'sell your camera, ha ha' when asking for advice to shoot kids playing soccer.
     
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  15. tosvus

    tosvus Mu-43 Top Veteran

    632
    Jan 4, 2014
    I agree. Hopefully somebody knows how to best use his exact camera for this.

    And not to be one pushing for a new camera, but for sports there seems to be a viable option in m43 with the gh4, perhaps combined with the 35-100 2.8 or 75 1.8
     
  16. John M Flores

    John M Flores Mu-43 All-Pro

    Jan 7, 2011
    Somerville, NJ
    I've heard some promising things about the new AF algorithms but have yet to see definitive test. Plus, soccer is different than a moving car or dog running towards the camera in that the action is unpredictable, moving lateral to the camera one second and then towards or away from the camera or diagonal to the camera the next.

    OP mentioned a J1 or J2 kit as a cheap complement to his M43 kit, so I feel ok posting these V1 samples:

    8031734179_1aa4115940_b. The Nikon V1 is perfect for soccer moms and dads by john m flores, on Flickr

    8031741916_94fa3d9a08_b. Eye on the ball by john m flores, on Flickr

    This last one is telling. There are plenty of alternate subjects to mistakenly focus on, but the V1 did the job here:
    8036195795_26bf5bf9b0_b. Logan playing soccer by john m flores, on Flickr

    I'd hazard a guess and say that in good light the V1 AF is on par with a mid-level DSLR, which is quite a feat. With the V1, it does automatically go into review mode after a sequence of shots, which is annoying and can't be turned off, but the newer models have this fixed. And I think an eye-level viewfinder is important when you have a ~300mm equivalent lens. The extra stability of the EVF plus the IS work great.
     
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  17. DizzyV6P

    DizzyV6P Mu-43 Regular

    141
    Apr 13, 2012
    Maryland
    Thanks for all the suggestions. I used to have a Canon 40D, but it along with over $2000 worth of lenses were sold in favor of downsizing to the more portable m43 format. I'll try some of the settings suggested and see if my keeper rate goes up. Since all the soccer games are around mid-day, I'm not too worried about lighting...except for too much sun! LOL.

    My wife just reminded me that if I wanted to get the Mario Kart 8 Wii U bundle at the end of the month, my G.A.S. budget is going to be very low. Too bad I missed the refurb Nikon J1/Lightroom 5 deal for $150.

    Thanks for all the suggestions!

    Rich
     
  18. gryphon1911

    gryphon1911 Mu-43 Hall of Famer

    Mar 13, 2014
    Central Ohio, USA
    Andrew
    www.keh.com

    Has like new/excellent condition Nikon 1 kits with the 10-30mm lens for $205 and under.

    I just checked this AM.
     
  19. usayit

    usayit Mu-43 Hall of Famer

    In my post, I did list out my settings that works best for me and shooting sports....
     
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  20. klee

    klee Mu-43 Veteran

    367
    Mar 20, 2013
    Houston, TX
    Kevin
    I've gotten decent results out of an adapted OM 135/3.5 I bought for $40 on my EM5 at my nieces soccer practice. even at F4 the DOF was still really shallow and it was imperative to simply prefocus and shoot bursts when the subjects arrive.

    these were shot at base ISO and 1/500, f4
     

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