Best Non-EE-1 Dot Sight For BIF?

Carbonman

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I find $180 CDN for a plastic Olympus EE-1 dot sight excessive. I have a bracket design in mind that will fasten to the L-bracket that I use with my E-M1 II but would appreciate some input on the most reliable, reasonably priced dot sights that are intended for handguns and rifles.
 

Carbonman

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I agree with your pricing comment. I've been thinking of going in this direction instead. If I don't like it, it's not much of a loss.
https://www.amazon.com/SVBONY-Reflex-Tactical-Reticles-Brightness/dp/B01N4CCR7X?th=1
My browser kept kicking me over to amazon.ca. I'll give this one a try:
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RickinAust

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I've also been looking for a EE-1 cheaper replacement. This looks intersting but I saw this review on Amazon. I would assume you would not be using the viewfinder with this mounted. However, if you wanted to take a quick shot through the view finder it may be an issue.
"This did not work for me for use on my camera and I returned it. HOWEVER, I want to state that it seemed very well made and I believe for use with a firearm it would hold up well despite some reviews that it did not.

The issue with my camera was that the rail upon which the sight mounts extended enough to the rear that it interfered with use of the camera's viewfinder. "
 

Zapp DJR

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Although not really interested in BIF, I have some experience with Red Dots.
I would say that for the purpose of mounting it on the camera, you would like to have it as small as possible, meaning a handgun type - something like Trijicon RMR clones. Just to show the example of the size and shape:
https://www.amazon.co.uk/VBVA-Tacti...+red+dot+sight&qid=1588008572&s=sports&sr=1-4
But: clones usually come as a single dot versions, of size 2MOA to 6MOA / no circle around. I do not know if / how difficult it would be to use it for BIF.
Of course you can find the original firearms ones, similar to the type like above, with dots and circles of different size - but they will be kind of expensive.
 
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Zapp DJR

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Motivated by my post above, today I've followed the issue :wink: .
Assembly: Red Dot (taken off the pistol for this purpose) mounted on the DIY rail system (Weaver rail cut to the required lenght + a piece of alu flat bar filed to the shape of Hot Shoe, then bolted together).
Result (photos by smartphone...):

2.jpg
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4.jpg
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Below: just to show how the field of view and DOT size looks like with this type of RD: DOT size 3,25MOA, distance to the pole approx. 55m, pole dia like 18-20cm. In real life the the glass tint is not so dark / not so big difference in viewing through and by the RD (it's tweaked to make the dot more visible for this presentation).

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Didn't have time yet to try this setup for BIF, but I believe it should be OK.
 
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Carbonman

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Motivated by my post above :wink: , today I've followed the issue.
Assembly: Red Dot (taken for this purpose off the pistol) mounted on the DIY
rail system (Weaver rail cut the required lenght + a piece of alu flat bar filed to the shape of Hot Shoe, then bolted together).
Result (photos by smartphone...):

View attachment 819254

View attachment 819255

View attachment 819256

Below: just to show how the field of view and DOT size looks like with this type of RD: DOT size 3,25MOA, distance to the pole approx. 55m, pole dia like 18-20cm. In real life the the glass tint is not so dark / not so big difference in viewing through and by the RD (it's tweaked to make the dot more visible for this presentation).

View attachment 819259

Didn't have time yet to try this setup for BIF, but I believe it should be OK.
Wow, a very elegant solution. I may try something similar but simpler - cut a small piece of bar stock to size, saw a groove on each side to let the legs of the hot shoe frame clear and bolt the Weaver rail on top. I bought 3 rails of different length and should have one that's almost the exact length I need.
 

Zapp DJR

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Thank you.
Bigger block with sawed slots also sounds like a good solution.
With my assy I was kind of fixed with what I've found in the barn 🙂 .
To be on the safety side, I"ve placed a piece of self-adhesive foil underneath the bar, to isolate it from the HS contacts - just in case. (But probably it's an overkill).
There are also some adapters which can be used, just to lock somehow the rail placed on top of, it to avoid possible twisting:

https://olfi.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2018/01/hot-shoe.jpg
 

Bagrphotography

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mann.. $400US for a sight (sounds nice though)
How is the practical application for it - how far away do you hold the camera from your face? Roughly M4 carbine distance (with stock open or closed)? Handgun distance?
Cheers
 

Zapp DJR

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As you know, with rifles and handguns you are already limited by their design for use.
I would say any distance from the eye, with which you feel comfortable holding the camera. There are videos covering EE-1 and it's usage.
My 2 cents: I've noticed that on those vids most of users do close one eye. I would rather recommend to have both eyes open (maybe it will require some time to get used to it) - this will give more control of what happens around.
 

Bagrphotography

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As you know, with rifles and handguns you are already limited by their design for use.
I would say any distance from the eye, with which you feel comfortable holding the camera. There are videos covering EE-1 and it's usage.
My 2 cents: I've noticed that on those vids most of users do close one eye. I would rather recommend to have both eyes open (maybe it will require some time to get used to it) - this will give more control of what happens around.
Agree - with RDS, I have always used two eyes open so the 'scope'/surround 'disappears' while the dot or target still shows.
 

Zapp DJR

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For those thinking about adding a kind of a rifle stock for better handling of the DOT set for BIF, there is a read-made solution 🙂 :
Zenith Sniper

It would require some minor adaptation.
In the part of the World where I come from, the complete set (camera [usually model TTL or 12XP] + lens + accesories, ...) can be bought mint for 250 - 300$ (give it or take).
 

ac12

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In watching a few of the videos.
  • It seems to me, that this setup really should use a shoulder stock for stability.
  • Pushing the camera away and using the strap for tension, as you look through the RDS just seems clumsy. It is like trying to follow a fast moving subject while looking at the back LCD screen on a P&S or phone camera. Really hard, for ME. Maybe easier for those who grew up with a cell phone camera.
I agree with @Zapp DJR , using the smaller pistol RDS is less likely to be damaged or to damage the camera, than the longer rifle RDS. I can see snagging the longer rifle RDS and ripping off or damaging the camera's hot shoe.
 

Holoholo55

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Mine cost me nothing. A friend of mine 3D printed the hot shoe adapter and gave me one of his spare red-dot sights. Works pretty well, with some practice. Calibration and practice is a must. I sanded the hot shoe mount until it was a snug fit in my EM1.2's hot shoe.

My friend, who is much more practiced at using his, says it makes a huge difference in being able to follow the movements of birds in flight and is able to get a lot more hits with it than trying to use the EVF. When I use it, I turn on the rear display and glance at it to see if the AF points are lighting up where I need them and listen for the AF beeps. It will take practice, even with the EE-1.

IMG_2446.jpg
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Sorry, don't know how to turn this right side up.
IMG_2449.jpg
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ac12

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This discussion reminds me of why I shoot wide, leaving a lot space around my subject.
I find it a LOT easier to track a fast moving subject when I am not cropping tight on the subject in the camera.
So the result is that I generally have to crop the image to get my picture out of the shot image.
 

Carbonman

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Mine cost me nothing. A friend of mine 3D printed the hot shoe adapter and gave me one of his spare red-dot sights. Works pretty well, with some practice. Calibration and practice is a must. I sanded the hot shoe mount until it was a snug fit in my EM1.2's hot shoe.

My friend, who is much more practiced at using his, says it makes a huge difference in being able to follow the movements of birds in flight and is able to get a lot more hits with it than trying to use the EVF. When I use it, I turn on the rear display and glance at it to see if the AF points are lighting up where I need them and listen for the AF beeps. It does take practice, even with the EE-1.

View attachment 822265

Sorry, don't know how to turn this right side up.
View attachment 822266
Your friend could make a killing selling those printed hot shoe adapters if they're reasonably durable and give a tight fit.
I'm hand filing and cutting aluminum bar stock with a Dremel rotary tool to make the foot. I'll then screw the foot and a strip of aluminum together, then mount the Picatinny rail. Finally the dot sight will get mounted and I'll be in business. Work is so busy right now that I don't know when I'll get back to the project. Hopefully next week.
 

Holoholo55

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Your friend could make a killing selling those printed hot shoe adapters if they're reasonably durable and give a tight fit.
I'm hand filing and cutting aluminum bar stock with a Dremel rotary tool to make the foot. I'll then screw the foot and a strip of aluminum together, then mount the Picatinny rail. Finally the dot sight will get mounted and I'll be in business. Work is so busy right now that I don't know when I'll get back to the project. Hopefully next week.
He said he got the plans from a website. Not sure which, but I can find out. Sure a lot easier than working metal if you have a printer. It's advantageous to have it slightly larger than the hot shoe slot, so you can sand and file it for a snug fit.

Ah, here is where he got the file. Have at it! https://www.thingiverse.com/thing:2820304
 
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Carbonman

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He said he got the plans from a website. Not sure which, but I can find out. Sure a lot easier than working metal if you have a printer. It's advantageous to have it slightly larger than the hot shoe slot, so you can sand and file it for a snug fit.

Ah, here is where he got the file. Have at it! https://www.thingiverse.com/thing:2820304
@Holoholo55, I'd print one to try if I had access to the equipment. How rigid do you find the mount to be? Does the plastic flex at all?
Edit: I found a local place that does 3D printing to order. I've contacted them re materials and pricing, and also to find out if there's anyone that can lengthen the rail in the design.
 
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Holoholo55

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@Holoholo55, I'd print one to try if I had access to the equipment. How rigid do you find the mount to be? Does the plastic flex at all?
Edit: I found a local place that does 3D printing to order. I've contacted them re materials and pricing, and also to find out if there's anyone that can lengthen the rail in the design.
I'm not sure what plastic he used, but it's rigid and doesn't flex. Of course, I'd prefer the mount break than tear off the hotshoe if it gets caught on something. :)
I was able to sand it lightly to adjust the fit in the hotshoe so that it was a snug fit when I pressed it in, yet easy enough to remove. It doesn't wiggle around. I don't think you want it too long, because you don't want it getting caught on something. It's more than long enough to mount most small red dot sights.
 

Carbonman

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It's more than long enough to mount most small red dot sights.
The RioRand sight totals 81mm long, quite a bit longer than yours. I'd like to add about 10mm to the rail length so I don't bump my forehead on the extended back end when using the EVF.
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