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best full frame lens for m 43 system

Discussion in 'Olympus Cameras' started by panonski, Dec 25, 2014.

  1. panonski

    panonski Mu-43 Regular

    53
    Dec 13, 2014
    Hello again,

    I'm new here, and I'm the new owner of PEN E-P5 ( 14-42 kit lens ) which is great camera. I read several articles about perfect lenses for M43 system, and I'm very satisfied with the choice in this area.
    ( even when I read something about shutting down this M43 system in the close future - don't know is it true, or it is not )

    Then I reading about Metabones SpeedBooster, which is new version of adapters for full frame lenses ( various manufactures ) and have a one lens inside the ring, which alows M43 sensor to "capture" all the light from bigger lenses without loosing anything anymore, and became "full frame" in a second.

    I was particulary studied this and read almost everything what you can find on the internet about that.

    Every review I read about it, was scored by minimum 4 stars, and almost every is between 4 and 5. "Excellent, brilliant, stunished" are the words from many of the customers reviews on metabones E-Bay link.

    My thougts from now on, having the different direction, and here we finally coming to the subject from the title.

    Which full frame lens you would prefered to buy, or own for your M-43 system,
    and,
    maybe more important question for users who already have Metabones adapter, and full frame lens,

    Does it worth it?
    How many is the full frame lens with metabones better then a smaller but real good m43 lens?

    I consider this question in a STILL pictures shooting, for video I realized already from reviews, the full frame with metabones is absolutelly hit and way better then m43.

    Thank you all
     
  2. kevinparis

    kevinparis Cantankerous Scotsman

    Feb 12, 2010
    Gent, Belgium
    Might be worth reading this thread

    https://www.mu-43.com/showthread.php?t=61038

    I wrote this thread to cover my experiences with a similar focal reducer...

    Since posting this I haven't used the reducer at all !!!

    My conclusion was that in most cases the native m43 lenses I have, 17, 20, 25, 75 did a better job

    K
     
    • Like Like x 2
  3. panonski

    panonski Mu-43 Regular

    53
    Dec 13, 2014
    Thank you for sharing your thread I checked it out, and found that you have Roxsen speed booster, and Metabones is a newer ( I think ) and real good in this area.

    I just want to know, if I would buy lenses ( any kind ) which one should I use.
    From which manufacturer and which lenses are good value. :smile:
     
  4. kevinparis

    kevinparis Cantankerous Scotsman

    Feb 12, 2010
    Gent, Belgium
    to be honest I would invest in native m43 lenses.

    I bought my legacy lenses 5 years back, and I have no idea of the prices they are going for now, but I was typically paying 100- 200 dollars for lenses from Nikon, Olympus, Pentax and Contax, companies that had a long standing reputation for excellence in their day.

    The metabones is a fine product, and was the first to market, but the 400 dollar price to me was too steep. The Roxsen was a quarter of that price, and I already had the lenses, so it was much less of an investment - and my conclusion was that for the focal lengths i prefer, that the native lenses were

    1) Better or as good as optically than any of the legacy lenses
    2) smaller (a legacy lens is most often bigger and heavier)
    3) has auto focus

    If you were to buy a Metabones and a couple of lenses, you are looking at perhaps 600 dollars - for the same money you could probably pick up second hand say the 20/1.7 and the 45/1.8, which would seem a better way to spend your money

    cheers

    Kevin
     
    • Like Like x 3
  5. eteless

    eteless Mu-43 All-Pro

    Jun 20, 2014
    I'm currently using one of the latest generation of Metabones speedboosters for Canon EF to m4/3. While it has advantages in low light it has many many many many disadvantages and I have been plagued with various issues that detract from it's performance. I could not in good faith suggest it as a future upgrade over native lenses for someone who does not have massive experience with and already owned the lenses to mount on it as it requires far more input from the operator(manual focus, manual stop down aperture on other versions) to produce quality images.

    In short, if you do not already own the lenses to put on one I would not suggest buying one and would put the money into native glass which will more reliably produce good images for less effort.

    The only full frame lenses I know of that are smaller than their m4/3 equivalents are in my dreams(or are mirrorless rangefinder lenses), it's very very hard to cheat physics (and when you do you generally discover exotic particles) and all FF SLR systems have a very large flange-focal distance. The lenses people rave about in reviews are generally far larger than their predecessors and universally larger than m4/3. Even small APS-C lenses are huge when compared to m4/3 ones, the only smaller lenses are the older completely manual film lenses.


    If you really still want to buy it after all of that, I would suggest you go to a store and try some of the Sigma Art series out for size, they're fantastic glass.
     
    • Like Like x 3
  6. eteless

    eteless Mu-43 All-Pro

    Jun 20, 2014
    Furthermore I would probably recommend using them on their native system over adapting them, while you can adapt them to m4/3 the amount of effort required to use them almost universally outweighs the benefits of using native glass.

    Nothing is free, you don't get benefit with no down side.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  7. HarryS

    HarryS Mu-43 Top Veteran

    918
    Jun 23, 2012
    Midwest, USA
    Panonski, it sounds like you want to future proof your EP5 aganst the failure of the M43. That's being crazy careful. There are so many fine m43 lenses you could be enjoying on the EP5. If you put an FF lens on the metabones, you will be twirling away at the focus ring, putting in work to get sharp pictures that the M43 lenses do automatically. On top of that, the Speed Booster lens is still .71X on M43, so you won't get the full benefit of the wider angle lenses.

    Now if you still want to go ahead, I would suggest picking up an Olympus OM 50mm f1.8 or Canon FD 50mm 1.8. They should be pretty inexpensive, under $25. Also buy an lenless adapter for around $15. These are both good lenses and will deliver nice images on the EP5. It will be a good test to see if you can handle manual everything/

    Personally, I enjoy using new lenses as well as my old ones. My Canon FD 85m and 135mm fill in some gaps in my lens lineup, and I find them fun to use with an inexpensive focal reducer too. However, many people cannot be bothered with the manual focus and aperture control.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  8. Jonathan F/2

    Jonathan F/2 Mu-43 Hall of Famer

    Aug 10, 2011
    Los Angeles, CA
    Nikon F lenses are the safest bet, because the mount has been around forever though the lenses still fetch more than other now-defunct lens mounts since the mount is still active. My favorite F-mount lenses due to performance and price are the Nikon 28mm 2.8 AI-S, any of the Nikon 50mm lenses and the 105mm 2.5 AI-S. Any of those lenses are sharp little jewels that will last well decades and beyond. Saying that though, I'd listen to Kevin and invest that money in native glass! For example my cheap Panasonic 45-150mm runs circles around any adapted telephoto lens and the Panasonic lens is a cheap kit lens! So imagine how good the the top tier glass is! :wink:
     
    • Like Like x 1
  9. Reflector

    Reflector Mu-43 Veteran

    406
    Aug 31, 2013
    I'm going to give you a handy link to my thread in which I have actual, 100% samples with my stable of lenses. They are fairly modern, digital era lenses with the exception of my Nikon 50 f/1.2. You can go find 100% samples of m43s lenses and be the judge.

    https://www.mu-43.com/showthread.php?t=52850

    That way you can be extremely objective about it and make your own decision about getting one alongside any m43s lenses you plan to acquire or to go into the madness head on like I have. I had fun with the ability to aggressively ETTR with wide, open apertures beyond f/2 in any lighting condition. The only thing you're missing out on is auto aperture* (Not an issue on the EF booster) and auto focus (This is very important for some people, heck its important to me but I find this an acceptable tradeoff).
     
    • Like Like x 1
  10. nuclearboy

    nuclearboy Mu-43 Top Veteran

    850
    Jan 28, 2011
    Ellicott City, MD
    Chris
    I like the idea of fast lenses. To me the cheapest lenses to play with are the 50mms from the film era. You can pick up some nice 50mm f1.4 lenses. I have had a few and currently have the FD 50mm f1.4 lens. It is a little long.

    Recently, I picked up a Metabones speed booster for FD to m43. The 50mm f1.4 now looks like a 35mm f1.0 lens. I really enjoy shooting with it. The 70mm equivalent focal length is good for me. The f1.0 capability is what I really wanted.

    Is this sharper and better than native m4/3 glass, no. But... There is no native 35mm f1.0 lens and the 50/1.4 on a metabones speed booster is a decent way to get there.

    My total cost for this setup used is less than $400 (used). The native (really fast glass) f0.95 Nokton or SLR magic lenses are not so cheap so I consider this a great option.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  11. kevinparis

    kevinparis Cantankerous Scotsman

    Feb 12, 2010
    Gent, Belgium

    from my understanding and some basic tests, a focal reducer will

    1) Make your heavy ,manual focus, manual stop, legacy 50/1.4, seem in terms of view and light gathering, like a 35/1.0

    2) give you an extra stop of exposure

    3) does not give you any difference in DOF beyond the fact, you have to move closer to the subject to compensate for the change in FOV.

    I can see the opportunities for a focal reducer... but they are not magic.

    merry christmas/happy holidays

    K
     
  12. Promit

    Promit Mu-43 All-Pro

    Jun 6, 2011
    Baltimore, MD
    Promit Roy
    I'm using the Metabones Speed Booster with Nikon lenses, predominantly the Sigma 18-35mm f/1.8, with the GH4 for filming purposes. I chose Nikon because it has a good selection of modern lenses, but does not require electronic support. The Canon version is appealing because it has electronic support which can be used to enable IS, but I was wary of lenses not functioning properly. In combination with the Sigma, this means that I have a solid midrange zoom that operates down to an effective f/1.2. I frequently use this combination wide open, particularly to get shallow DOF effects in wide shots - a look that would be impossible to recreate with native lenses.

    I don't tend to use this combination much for photography, primarily because my photo work tends to be somewhat run and gun, and a fast manual focus lens is challenging to use. I will pull it out for studio shooting.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  13. nuclearboy

    nuclearboy Mu-43 Top Veteran

    850
    Jan 28, 2011
    Ellicott City, MD
    Chris
    I agree that metabones are not magic but they do add an extra stop of light. I enjoy lower light shooting without a flash. I like the "look" of these type of photos. They are usually very warm and make great candid shots at a party. I also like keeping the ISO low on my m43 camera. Having an f1.0 option helps in this case.

    Generally speaking, the native lenses are great and you cannot go wrong with them. If you do find a used metabones for sale at a good price, however, I recommend trying it. The 50mm lenses make this easy because they are cheap too and you can easily find an f1.4 model. Everyone has their own pros and cons for spending money. I recommend buying used and trying it. IF you don't like it, sell it for a minor loss and consider it a cheap rental. I have bought and sold around 50 lenses over the past 5 years and thought I was done playing and have settled on a good set of native lenses and one long manual focus lens. When the meta bones speedboosters came out I had to try some more manual focus options and I have started looking again. So far it has been worth it for me. Your mileage may vary.
     
    • Like Like x 2
  14. panonski

    panonski Mu-43 Regular

    53
    Dec 13, 2014
    All right,

    Here we have some very constructive answers, and I want again to thank you all in this intersting converstation.

    Yes, I would love to try MetaBones SpeedBooster, and I think in some cases of photographyng with m 43, it can really add some extra value in the final look of pics you will made.

    I see advantages of extra exposure values, and DOF in low light proffesional shooting, when you don't want use flash in photographyng your subjects at parties, or other kind of events.

    To be honest, disadvatage of full use of AUTOFOCUS ( ...cause I've already seen in some reviews that it can working just fine in simple ways )
    is not quite disadvantage for me.
    Now I have electro focus ring, which is not quite suitable for me. I can't stop the ring at infininity, and to close up end, cause lens ring hasn't physical function for it,
    and in darkness or landscapes with many sky and no contrast I have difficulties to make even simply infinity position, every time I shot in such conditions I have difficulties to focus instatly, and I must press button many times before I "catch it" to the for proper distance value.

    In dark conditions when I have musicians in front of myself, and the smoke from the stage became visible I have also difficulties with AF focusing,
    Simply I must use some tricks to put the focus in the right area. IF I have difficulties when focusing object, I will move focus to something different in the area, which could be close enough to "pass".

    So, the disadvantage is not quite disadvantage. I can live with it.
     
  15. eteless

    eteless Mu-43 All-Pro

    Jun 20, 2014
    If you get the canon version remember you will most likely have no image stabilization at all on Olympus bodies(only lenses with IS themselves will have functioning IS, as they are mostly slow f2.8 zooms it removes basically all of the appeal of using them. Almost no primes have stabilization thus they will be unstabilized) it's still *VERY* useful in low light to boost shutter speed and remove subject movement blur, however camera shake is a huge problem compared to native lenses once you start to get tired at the end of a long day.

    Furthermore on Olympus bodies you're going to need to invest in some new *strong* UV filters if you plan on doing low light photography with artificial lighting as the hot mirror on Olympus bodies causes absolutely massive purple flaring with the majority of lenses(every full frame lens I've tested to date has much higher UV transmission, newer sigma primes seem hugely vulnerable to purple blob/flare).
     
    • Like Like x 1
  16. panonski

    panonski Mu-43 Regular

    53
    Dec 13, 2014
    But, I thoght the Pen E-P5 have stabilization in the body, and in the lens.

    So, if I haven't lens stabilization, I will have body stabilisation right ? Or don't ?
     
  17. Klorenzo

    Klorenzo Mu-43 All-Pro

    Mar 10, 2014
    Lorenzo
    I think it is a bad idea, in many different ways.

    With an adapted FF lens the camera became as big as a FF camera so why just not buy a Sony (that has smaller lenses too)?

    FF lenses are not better the m43 lenses. Often the opposite is true, it depends on what specific lenses you are comparing.

    Maybe next year, maybe in ten years Canon and Nikon will put out a mirrorless system with a new mount. Current lenses will obviously work with an adapter but will loose value. And "many" will move to "cheap" medium format cameras like the Pentax one. Many will move to Sony. And who knows what else.

    The ISO difference between a m43 and a latest gen FF is much more than one stop. If you are after low light capabilities you won't get much more here.

    A FF will not give you the FF look (i.e. small DOF) with any lens and the same is true for adapted lenses. You need a long fast lens for strong blur (unless you are shooting small things), and those are big. The Nikon 135/2.8 (630 grams) with "no-name/fotodiox" focal reducer on the EM-10, with the extra grip, is a beast. I'm always worried to rip the mount out of the camera or the adapter if I shake it too much. On the EP-5 it would be even more challenging.
    There are lighter options (85mm, 90mm, etc.) but a 50/1.8 is not going to be much different than a native 45/1.8, and, in most scenarios, from a 60/2.8 like the sigma that costs less then speedbooster itself. Let alone the 75/1.8 or a Voigtlander or a Nocticron.
    If you really are into portraits and you work to get that specific look probably you will notice the difference, otherwise I doubt.

    Many old lenses are not that good wide open: the Nikon 50/1.4 Ai-s (with normal adapter or with focal reducer) needs to be stopped down to f2 or 2.8 to get good contrast. So you loose the advantage of the extra speed unless you are after soft/dreamy rendering.
    If you are thinking about new lenses...the Rokinon 85/1.4 (with or without focal reducer) is something you could consider, but it shouldn't be much different from the 75/1.8 with twice the weight, almost three times if you add 200 grams for the adapter. But it obviously depends on what you need it to: Canon 80-200/f4 L? Jupiter 9 85mm?

    No matter how good the Metabone is I presume, just my opinion, it is going to "corrupt" the image from any super-sharp FF lens. So it is nonsense to use it with 1000$ lenses. I have no proof of this, but I think a good native 1000$ lens is going to be better than a good adapted 1000$ lens no matter what. The adapter is going to take away just that micro edge that makes that lens better than a "just good" lens.

    For videos the metabone is "better" because for video you always need a lot of light.

    So it really depends on what you are after: low light, image quality, future proof, save money, etc.
     
    • Like Like x 2
  18. HarryS

    HarryS Mu-43 Top Veteran

    918
    Jun 23, 2012
    Midwest, USA
    Well, if it's going to be bands in dark clubs, the 14-42 II zoom is not your friend. Better lenses on the EP5 will be the Olymous 25mm and 45mm.

    This one goes back to 2011 with my EPL1, well beyond that camera's comfort range at ISO 2500, but it can cope with a fast lens. The stage did have spot lights, and that was good enough for that five dollar Canon FD 50mm that I like, on a $20 adapter. Exif says 1/100 second, and I believe I stopped it down one click for f2.
     

    Attached Files:

    • Like Like x 1
  19. panonski

    panonski Mu-43 Regular

    53
    Dec 13, 2014
    good shot for Pen 1 :)

    Yes, I will invest at fast lens, I need it it :)
     
  20. bigal1000

    bigal1000 Mu-43 Veteran

    337
    Sep 10, 2010
    New Hampshire
    I'll stick with my fast MFT lenses there just better, whatever floats your boat folks.............."Happy New Year" all..........