To non Photoshop users? They are, what they are, of course. That's the nature of abandonware. But I was surprised to discover that Viveza 2 simply won't work with either Paint Shop Pro X8 or with ACDSee Ultimate 9. And while I can get Viveza to launch as a standalone app, I have not been able to get it to open an image as a standalone. Several of the other tools DO work with ACDSee and PSP as plugins, but in my mind, Viveza was the crown jewel of the suite, the other tools have high quality and relatively inexpensive competitors, so their addition to my tool box is marginal at best. I have three questions: Have you been able to get Viveza to work with other non Adobe tools? (and I mean launch it, edit a photo, and return a useful image.) If so, what software did you use to host the Nik tools? (also, are you on a Mac or a PC?) Have you been able to launch Viveza as a stand alone app, and again I mean launch it, edit a photo, and return a useful image?