any one using darktable on mac?

Discussion in 'Image Processing' started by genesimmons, Sep 9, 2017.

  1. genesimmons

    genesimmons Mu-43 Veteran

    431
    Feb 12, 2017
    i recently picked up apanasonic zs70 and unfortunraly none of my editing soft ware is compatible with the raw files it produces, i have converted them to dng and dxo pro optics still wont open the dng files, i am looking at other options for the panny raw files, i seen this darktable raw software, has any one used this with sucsess, it looks pretty good, i am working away and have very limited internet so i dont want to down load it if others state its useless, thanx
     
  2. exakta

    exakta Mu-43 Veteran

    237
    Jun 2, 2015
    I have used Darktable, although not a lot because I'm generally happy with OOC JPEGS and shot RAW+JPEG only as a safety. I certainly would not call it useless! I've never used Lightroom but from what little I know, Darktable has a similar feature set and interface.

    The reason I got Darktable was that it supported my Fuji X10's odd RAW format. If it supports the ZS70 RAW I would not hesitate.
     
  3. MoonMind

    MoonMind Mu-43 Top Veteran Subscribing Member

    815
    Oct 25, 2014
    Switzerland
    Matt
    I use darktable as my main image processing software on GNU/Linux - it's a very competent and reasonably simple to use piece of software.

    However, it really depends on your needs and experience how you'll judge the actual usage. If you know your way around LR and PS, you'll find a lot of similarities.

    Did you use Adobe's DNG converter? If not, which one?

    M.
     
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  4. genesimmons

    genesimmons Mu-43 Veteran

    431
    Feb 12, 2017
    yes
    i used adobe dng converter, dxo pro optics still wuldnt open the dng file, i emailed them and they told me that even dng converted files have full exif data and thier software wont open a dng file for a camera it doesnt support, strange they suppport the zs60 the model below but not mine, they told me i could put in a request for my cam to be supported but who knows, i used light room after i converted the dng, lightroom opened them, i am not a fan of converting, i keep thinking i lose quality by convertng, i had to convert my em1.2 files because dxo didnt support it when i got it, i am sure the unconverted raw files have more play room when left as is not converted, i could pull more shadows from the original than the dng, could be me but i think that anyways,
     
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  5. MoonMind

    MoonMind Mu-43 Top Veteran Subscribing Member

    815
    Oct 25, 2014
    Switzerland
    Matt
    I'm not entirely sure if darktable actually does support your camera yet - if you can't find out other, I can try to check.

    M.
     
  6. exakta

    exakta Mu-43 Veteran

    237
    Jun 2, 2015
    The current support list at the Darktable site doesn't show zs70/tz90.
     
  7. genesimmons

    genesimmons Mu-43 Veteran

    431
    Feb 12, 2017
    darn i was hoping it would, thank u all for the info and help, i downloaded a few apps today and none worked with the zs70 raw files, i emailed panasonic and asked them what they recomend to open thier own files and they said silky pix, what a piece of garbage sofware that is, on a mac anyways, very glitchy and slow, it opened the raw but wouldnt let me save in anything other than jpeg or tiff, wouldnt think opening a raw file would be so hard haha,
     
  8. junkyardsparkle

    junkyardsparkle Mu-43 Top Veteran

    720
    Nov 17, 2016
    like, The Valley
    First step to getting support into darktable is to submit a sample RAW file here: raw.pixls.us
     
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  9. genesimmons

    genesimmons Mu-43 Veteran

    431
    Feb 12, 2017
    thanx for the link, ill send one and see what happens
     
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  10. junkyardsparkle

    junkyardsparkle Mu-43 Top Veteran

    720
    Nov 17, 2016
    like, The Valley
    If you upload a sample(s), you could then create a request for camera support here (mention that you uploaded a sample already).
     
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  11. MoonMind

    MoonMind Mu-43 Top Veteran Subscribing Member

    815
    Oct 25, 2014
    Switzerland
    Matt
    The interesting thing is that you can work with your RAW files regardless - just pick a generic profile and work from there. You may have to do more work (WB and maybe lens distortion), but basically, darktable is an omnivore ... Besides, I'd actually look into DNG conversion one more time in the meantime - I think you can get more or less a straight conversion without lots of loss; after all, that's what PS and LR use as well to import the RAWs, so it should be possible to do it without loss. darktable works well with DNGs - though I agree I prefer the direct RAW path as well.

    On the samples: Follow their guide as to how your sample should be taken - it's a bit counter-intuitive at first, and may be a tad difficult with a compact camera ... (blurry, super-contrasty to the point of clipping on both ends of the histogram - and there's more I don't remember).

    M.
     
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  12. junkyardsparkle

    junkyardsparkle Mu-43 Top Veteran

    720
    Nov 17, 2016
    like, The Valley
    Well, yes and no... the process you describe is for creating a camera-specific noise profile... which is nice to have, but first darktable has to be able to digest the RAW at all, preferably via the RawSpeed library (it can fall back on other methods for uncommon files, but for a very recent camera, that probably won't help). For this, the devs just need any RAW at all, doesn't matter what the capture is, it's just for the structure of the file. After that, specific exposures as you describe can be taken for noise profiling or, in the case of fixed-lens cameras, lens correction (which is handled by another project, Lensfun, and those images need to be taken with careful attention to the instructions). So... it's complicated. :D

    But the first thing is to get the basic camera support into a darktable release as described in my earlier posts. The other stuff can be added to an install by the user when it becomes available, without having to wait for another release version.
     
  13. MoonMind

    MoonMind Mu-43 Top Veteran Subscribing Member

    815
    Oct 25, 2014
    Switzerland
    Matt
    You're probably correct; I'm used to kludging my RAWs into darktable somehow anyway, so may have basically forgotten about the proper procedure. I wasn't aware of the preliminary process of getting basic camera support anyhow - so thanks for the information. I was indeed referring to profile development. Lensfun is another bag of tricks altogether, with another set of tools (and images) needed to complete that.

    Again, when things are stalling, I just use Adobe Camera RAW for DNG conversion (on Windows ...), then import the DNGs into darktable; this has worked for all cameras. It's a bit of a hassle, but I do this when I can't afford the time to contribute to RAW profile development and Lensfun.

    Actually (at least on GNU/Linux), you can always "cheat" (i.e. add your camera to the config files manually by copying a predecessor's data and renaming the labels), but that's a bad idea if the sensor has changed (*EDIT* so it's NOT an option for the ZS70 - new sensor compared to models with the same lens!)

    Finally, if you're not afraid of fiddling with WB and extremely basic RAW adjustments, Photivo will import true RAW data if there's no profile in the libraries. But the images will look very ugly at first - you have to start by doing very careful setting WB and do eveything by hand. Interesting, but not simple, and certainly time consuming.

    M.
     
    Last edited: Sep 10, 2017
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  14. datagov

    datagov Mu-43 Hall of Famer

    Dec 2, 2012
    New York
    I've been using Darktable on Mac for a few years and like its flexibility. But it is not as good for Olympus raw processing as Affinity Photo. I still use DT to import new photos, then select the ones I want to work on, and make a RAW copy. I then process the copy in Affinity, where I find both the Raw processing and output to be better than DT - better colors, less noise, and more control.
     
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  15. junkyardsparkle

    junkyardsparkle Mu-43 Top Veteran

    720
    Nov 17, 2016
    like, The Valley
    Yeah, it didn't seem like there was a good reason to go there in this case... even when there is a likely candidate to clone, it's a bit of a hack, and risks creating a bad user experience for somebody not already sure about darktable. On the other hand, it looks like the lens might be the same as the ZS60... but there's no Lensfun profile for that one yet, either. All the more reason to contribute images for one once the basic support is in the RAW libraries. :D
     
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  16. genesimmons

    genesimmons Mu-43 Veteran

    431
    Feb 12, 2017
    yes the zs60 is the same camera lens, ill send them a raw and see what happens
     
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  17. junkyardsparkle

    junkyardsparkle Mu-43 Top Veteran

    720
    Nov 17, 2016
    like, The Valley
    You probably want to wait on having basic support in darktable before attempting to take the lens calibration shots, since
    • Most of the people (including me) working on Lensfun profiles are probably using darktable to check results
    • You'll be better able to evaluate the images yourself before uploading; a superzoom like that one needs about seven or so shots carefully spaced along the zoom range, and often the OOC images don't give you a very good sense of where the edge of the frame really is in the RAW file, since they've already been corrected (some cameras crop a surprising amount in the process).
    If/when that happens, ping this thread... I tend to prioritize the time I spend working on calibrations towards fixed-lens cameras, since in those cases it really can be a camera usability issue...
     
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