Any former hunters on here?

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Brownie

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Your choice, my friend.

My choice is either destroy our wildlife or save it. I think we should save it and I'm not afraid to say so!
Not sure where you're from, but here in Michigan money from hunting and fishing licenses supports the management of both game and non-game species more than any other source.
 

demiro

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Not sure where you're from, but here in Michigan money from hunting and fishing licenses supports the management of both game and non-game species more than any other source.
You guys also have those cool hunting lodges up north where you can pay big bucks to kill “exotic” animals that are not native to the state. I recall reading that animals are tethered, or possibly drugged, as to make it really sporting.
 

Bidkev

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Your choice, my friend.

My choice is either destroy our wildlife or save it. I think we should save it and I'm not afraid to say so!
If it wasn't for hunters Australia would be over-run with non-indigenous species such as foxes, camels, deer, donkeys, wild dogs, boar, and even ox. Hunting is a necessity in many instances and in many countries to maintain a healthy population. As habitat diminishes, hunting is one of the ways to assure that there is enough food for the animals that remain. If not hunted/culled, the species as a whole suffer from diminishing habitat/food supply.

To dismiss all hunting as unnecessary or cruel is narrow minded IMHO. Hunters and fishers are amongst the greatest advocates for management/protection of wildlife.
 

Brownie

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You guys also have those cool hunting lodges up north where you can pay big bucks to kill “exotic” animals that are not native to the state. I recall reading that animals are tethered, or possibly drugged, as to make it really sporting.
That's pretty much incorrect. There are game ranches that offer hunts for animals like Russian Boar, Ram, and other animals not typically accessible to us. Thy are not tethered, chained, drugged, or trained to not fear humans. Every hunt I'm aware of can be by stalking, guided, or from a blind. While I'm certain there are illegal hunting sites that engage in unethical practices, it is not acceptable to anyone, especially not true hunters and sportsman who are very conscientious on the whole.

Writings of that nature are typically little more than propaganda.
 

demiro

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That's pretty much incorrect. There are game ranches that offer hunts for animals like Russian Boar, Ram, and other animals not typically accessible to us. Thy are not tethered, chained, drugged, or trained to not fear humans. Every hunt I'm aware of can be by stalking, guided, or from a blind. While I'm certain there are illegal hunting sites that engage in unethical practices, it is not acceptable to anyone, especially not true hunters and sportsman who are very conscientious on the whole.

Writings of that nature are typically little more than propaganda.
I truly hope you are correct. I read some of this when I lived in Michigan, many moons ago, and have heard the same thing from hunters who claimed to know first hand, and who are very much against those practices.

There is a deep irony with hunting/hunters. As you say, many hunters are amazing stewards of our wild spaces and the occupants thereof. And many are not. Quite often it's very hard for the average person to separate the two. I don't think the good ones do nearly enough to call out the bad ones (at least in the US).
 

WT21

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When I lived deep in western NY, I wasn't a hunter, but locals said to beware of the first few days of hunting season because the "city" hunters were in the woods -- drunk and shooting at everything. Later, the local hunters went out. Don't know if that was true. Maybe it was just to keep us non-hunters out of the woods in the early season so as not to scare the deer, lol. In Western NY and across the PA border, there were deer hung up in many backyards. These were poor areas, too. The deer weren't going to waste.
 

Bushboy

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Yes, but you can’t eat a pic... :)
Well you could, but it won’t get you very far. Lol
 

Keeth101

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If it wasn't for hunters Australia would be over-run with non-indigenous species such as foxes, camels, deer, donkeys, wild dogs, boar, and even ox. Hunting is a necessity in many instances and in many countries to maintain a healthy population. As habitat diminishes, hunting is one of the ways to assure that there is enough food for the animals that remain. If not hunted/culled, the species as a whole suffer from diminishing habitat/food supply.

To dismiss all hunting as unnecessary or cruel is narrow minded IMHO. Hunters and fishers are amongst the greatest advocates for management/protection of wildlife.
There's a massive difference between culling for the sake of the wildlife itself and killing animals for pleasure (although I can't for the life of me see where there could be any pleasure in it).

It seems to me that it's just a macho thing that certain people do in an attempt to show how big and brave they are ....... when they have a gun in their hands of course.
 

Brownie

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There's a massive difference between culling for the sake of the wildlife itself and killing animals for pleasure (although I can't for the life of me see where there could be any pleasure in it).

It seems to me that it's just a macho thing that certain people do in an attempt to show how big and brave they are ....... when they have a gun in their hands of course.
A typical response from someone who makes assumptions based on zero knowledge. Let's turn it around for those who disparage hunters:

"It seems to me that it's just a feel-good thing that certain people do in an attempt to show how socially aware they are...when they're thousands of miles away typing on a keyboard, of course."

I have learned that much of what most people believe is based on their upbringing. Not the quality thereof, but the culture. I was raised in a culture that promoted hunting and eating the game. In my parents day it was survival. In my day it is hobby. Anyone who makes a statement like you has never been in the woods freezing your ass off for days on end hoping to get a shot at a deer, or spent hours and hours traipsing through fields trying to jump a pheasant or other upland bird, only to end up empty handed at the end of the day (or season). People who express an opinion like yours seem to think that hunters get together and get drunk, then head out into the woods, shoot a deer, brag about it, and that's it. Those people are few and far between. It is a stereotype (you are supposed to be against stereotyping, aren't you?) that has been exacerbated by comic strips and cartoons. Hunting is a challenge like anything else. It takes effort, experience and patience to be successful.

There are many people who engage in archery hunting. I used to, but no longer have the time or commitment necessary to be accurate and effective. As an ethical hunter, I have given it up. There is nothing worse than wounding an animal with a poor shot. The goal is quick and clean. Always, no exceptions.

Now, I'm fairly certain I haven't changed your mind, nor would I expect to. That's ok, there is room for everyone in this world. The key is to remain respectful. You don't agree with me, yet I can see your side. I would expect you to offer me the same courtesy.
 

Bidkev

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There's a massive difference between culling for the sake of the wildlife itself and killing animals for pleasure (although I can't for the life of me see where there could be any pleasure in it).

It seems to me that it's just a macho thing that certain people do in an attempt to show how big and brave they are ....... when they have a gun in their hands of course.
You appear to have a very limited understanding of the skills that hunting entails or the reasons why people hunt, or else choose to ignore them in order to denigrate hunters per se. It has very little to do with showing how "big and brave" they are but more to do with self satisfaction in one's abilities. Firearm management, understanding one's prey, overcoming the environment/elements and/or using it to one's advantage, providing for self are but a few reasons that one may hunt. We are by nature, hunter gatherers and some studies have found that many choose to hunt primarily for the sense of achievement, camaraderie, and "back to nature feel". Forty percent (in the USA) hunt for "sustenance" so it appears that your gross generalisation has no validity.
 

demiro

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I am not a hunter, and no one in my family has hunted since the Great Depression, when I'm told rabbit was about the only meat on the menu. Having said that, I live in an area where hunting is the norm. And I know plenty of people on both sides of the hobby that Brownie describes. More "good" hunters than "bad", but still a lot of bad. And most of them are decent people. I think.

I simply can't tolerate killing for fun, or some macho self-fulfillment, or whatever the psychological need is. And as long as the good hunters treat the bad as equals, which is exactly what I see all of the time, the bad cast a long shadow over the group.
 

WT21

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And as long as the good (group name placeholder) treat the bad as equals, which is exactly what I see all of the time, the bad cast a long shadow over the group.
This goes for everything I can think of across the political, religious and social landscape. Its a tough worldview to throw out everything where there are bad operators. It would be hard to function.
 

Brownie

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I am not a hunter, and no one in my family has hunted since the Great Depression, when I'm told rabbit was about the only meat on the menu. Having said that, I live in an area where hunting is the norm. And I know plenty of people on both sides of the hobby that Brownie describes. More "good" hunters than "bad", but still a lot of bad. And most of them are decent people. I think.

I simply can't tolerate killing for fun, or some macho self-fulfillment, or whatever the psychological need is. And as long as the good hunters treat the bad as equals, which is exactly what I see all of the time, the bad cast a long shadow over the group.
There is no 'need'. You are applying some sentiment based on an assumption. You have to make these assumptions because you have no first-hand knowledge, as admitted in your post.

See Bidkev's post.

Not all good hunters treat bad as equals. I have literally walked out of deer camp in the middle of the hunt. Packed up and left, due to unethical action by other hunters.
 

Keeth101

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OK. Let's pick just a few words out here. 'Hobby', 'Skills', 'Firearm management', 'understanding one's prey' for instance.

'Hobby'? - killing defenseless animals for enjoyment.
'Skills'? - Using intelligence against an animal who hasn't got a clue.
'Firearm management'? - Wouldn't need any of it if not killing animals for fun.
'Understanding ones prey'? - Pity ones 'prey' doesn't understand them, it might be a fairer fight if it did ... and if it had guns, sat nav, etc. etc. etc.

How would you feel if someone from another world came with weapons which you don't understand or can fight against, 'skills which you cannot comprehend, etc. etc. .... and then started to hunt you and consider you as just 'prey'

As I said, I can understand culling for the sake of the animals and their environment, I can also understand killing for food, but here I would use the phrase 'Essential Food' which should need no explanation.
 
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WT21

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There are clearly two sides here, and I don't they are going to change any minds. Please make sure replies are to the issue and not to the person.
 
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