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Anti-Shock on E-M5

Discussion in 'Olympus Cameras' started by radamo, Sep 4, 2012.

  1. radamo

    radamo Mu-43 Regular

    183
    Aug 22, 2012
    Long Island, NY
    Rich
    What do the more experienced users have their Anti-Shock setting set to for normal shooting? What I mean by normal is a family event or travel. I saw a blog today which seemed to show some evidence that it is a good idea to keep Anti-shock set to 1/8 on the E-M5.

    Anyone have any thoughts on this?

    Camera Ergonomics: Micro 4/3 Shutter Shock Revisited [OMD-EM-5]
     
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  2. b_rubenstein

    b_rubenstein Mu-43 All-Pro

    Mar 20, 2012
    Melbourne, FL
    If Anti shock is turned on there will be a delay between the time you push the shutter button and the shutter fires. The doesn't work so great if you want a picture NOW and not later.

    Anti-shock is useful for taking long exposures, on a tripod, when you don't want any vibration blurring the image.
     
  3. radamo

    radamo Mu-43 Regular

    183
    Aug 22, 2012
    Long Island, NY
    Rich
    That makes sense and seems to be what the documentation says the feature is for is for. I guess my thought was with a mirrorless camera there would not be so many moving parts banging around when I was trying to hold the camera steady. The concept of "shutter shake" seems like a valid concern. I certainly take pictures that I want to capture exactly at the moment of the shutter press. I am already turned off a bit by the EVF blackout but could get used to it. I will have to go out and take some pictures with various settings and continue to learn how to get the best out of this camera.

    Thanks...
     
  4. Mikefellh

    Mikefellh Mu-43 Top Veteran

    939
    Jun 7, 2012
    Toronto, Canada
    The shutter has to first close, antishock, then exposure (open, close), then back to Live View.
     
  5. Sammyboy

    Sammyboy m43 Pro

    Oct 26, 2010
    Steeler Country
    Anti-shock is used for time-lapse photography.
     
  6. Mikefellh

    Mikefellh Mu-43 Top Veteran

    939
    Jun 7, 2012
    Toronto, Canada
    Not nessarily, as I can have quick exposure time lapse sitting on a solid surface and antishock would do squat for it.

    Again longer exposure, and/or long focal length, on a tripod.
     
  7. Ross the fiddler

    Ross the fiddler Mu-43 Hall of Famer

    That's a by-product of it (anti-shock) or a work around to achieve it (time lapse). If you read the article you will see that the shutter speeds mentioned are a very much used range & if there are blurring issues for a particular situation then with 1/8 sec shutter delay being setup in the camera, it can be easily activated through the drive mode for those instances when it is needed hand held. Have a look at the example photos & come back with your comment again.
     
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  8. riverr02

    riverr02 Mu-43 Veteran

    258
    May 2, 2011
    New York
    Rafael
    I have a theory as to why this may occur, though it's just a theory. The author describes this process occurring with the OM-D but not the GH2, and I suspect it may be the IBIS. The sensor is held in place by the IBIS but isn't fixed in place to the body the way it is on the GH2, such that any internal vibration might ever so slightly nudge the sensor beyond what the IBIS can compensate for time-wise. Since the GH2's sensor is solidly fixed to the body, I wouldn't expect it to be a problem there.

    Thoughts?

    R
     
  9. David A

    David A Mu-43 All-Pro

    Sep 30, 2011
    Brisbane, Australia
    Rafael,

    I initially thought that myself but less so now.

    I don't doubt that Andrew got the results he did, but his explanation of "shutter shock" doesn't hold up for me. The test results he reports aren't the way camera shake normally behaves and essentially he's saying that the shutter is causing camera shake.

    Take a look at his results with the 75-300: problems between 1/100 and 1/200 sec. Why not at slower speeds when we all now that camera shake gets worse as the exposure gets longer. With the 12-50 we have a similar situation, problems between 1/40 and 1/125 of a sec but not at slower speeds. Add to that the fact that we can usually handhold shorter exposures with a wider lens but here we can handhold shorter exposures—up to 1/100 sec—with the 40-150 but only up to 1/40 sec with the 12-50. That doesn't sound like any camera shake problem I've heard of.

    Add to that the fact that the E-M5's sensor is supported in the same way when using both lenses with IBIS off, and it's the same shutter. Why is he getting different results, ie different problem shutter speed ranges, with different lenses. Why are slower shutter speeds a problem with one lens and longer shutter speeds with the other lens. Surely with the same shutter action and sensor support the result should be more consistent across lenses.

    I don't know what's going on but camera movement from shutter shock doesn't hold up for me with these results, and if it were something to do with the E-M5's sensor's sensitivity to any shock from the shutter then I'd expect to see the same results from both lenses at the slowest shutter speeds and that's not what he's reporting.

    Whatever the issue is, it's lens dependent. The reported results prove that, and he comments that the GF2 had problems with some but not all lenses so he's got a lens dependent problem there too.

    I think the explanation is different but I currently have no ideas what it might be.
     
  10. arad85

    arad85 Mu-43 Veteran

    477
    Aug 16, 2012
    I think it is probably resonance in the lens design causing the problem. I don't think it is the shutter causing the camera to move, more the lens elements to flex slightly relative to each other. The frequency the lens will do that at (and hence the shutter speed that is affected) will be dependent on the construction of the lens, the nature of the shutter release, the mass of the lens, the tolerance of manufacture and the particular tolerance of that lens' construction (i.e. people will see differences in lenses).

    I would expect the mechanics of the IS system to assume that the lens element construction in front of it is rigid. If it isn't (which is what I - and I think Andrew - suspect here) it is the fact that the lens itself is moving slightly internally that causes a problem.

    If this is the case, I'd expect the better constructed lenses to have less of a problem.
     
  11. OPSSam

    OPSSam Mu-43 Regular

    134
    Dec 18, 2010
    NC
    I'll throw another example into this mix. I shoot a 400mm (that's equivalent 800mm on the PEN or other M43 cameras of course) legacy lens on my E-PL1. I noticed from the live view zoom that after a picture was taken, the image was bouncing up and down just enough to notice. Anti-shock helped reduce that. It was a big lens, mid lens tripod mount, F6.3, you get the idea. By letting the anti-shock go for about 15 seconds it helped reduce any possible shake-blur that may have shown up.
     
  12. Ross the fiddler

    Ross the fiddler Mu-43 Hall of Famer

    Maybe you're right, but there might be other reasons as possible causes or reasons as in the above posts.
     
  13. goldenlight

    goldenlight Mu-43 All-Pro

    Jan 30, 2010
    Essex
    John
    These results seem to be showing clearly in specific tests, but is anybody noticing the problem when actually taking pictures?
     
  14. WT21

    WT21 Mu-43 Hall of Famer

    Feb 19, 2010
    Boston
    I've viewed over 10,000 m43 pictures, many if not most at 1:1. My DSLR gave me more issues with front and back focusing than my m43 gear has given me with the double image issue. Its real, but hasn't been tremendously common in my experience. I think the EPM1 is most suseptible because of the small body size, but otherwise its not been an eveer present thing.
     
  15. David A

    David A Mu-43 All-Pro

    Sep 30, 2011
    Brisbane, Australia
    I thought of resonance but I couldn't think of how shutter speed would relate to it. Resonance is a frequency related problem with a peak at the resonant frequency. I can understand different lenses having different resonant frequencies but I can't see how this results in the problem becoming visible in a different shutter speed bandwidth for different lenses if shutter shock is the source of the vibration causing the problem since the shock causing the problem has to come from the initial shutting then opening of the shutter. I can't see why the longest shutter speeds tested aren't affected with either lens on the E-M5 if the problem is a lens resonance.
     
  16. radamo

    radamo Mu-43 Regular

    183
    Aug 22, 2012
    Long Island, NY
    Rich
    Exactly why I was asking... trying to get a feel for what users are seeing in their photos. I have only had my E-M5 a week so my sample size is fairly limited.
    RA
     
  17. jnewell

    jnewell Mu-43 All-Pro

    Jun 23, 2011
    Boston, MA
    No, and I'm a pixel-peeper... :confused:
     
  18. GaryAyala

    GaryAyala Mu-43 Legend

    Jan 2, 2011
    SoCal
    No problems here.
     
  19. arad85

    arad85 Mu-43 Veteran

    477
    Aug 16, 2012
    Perhaps because the resonances die down relatively quickly so the proportion of the time the shutter is open vs how long the vibrations are apparent changes.

    Consider very fast shutter speeds - the speed of the shutter is too quick - the resonance hasn't had time to affect the optics - the effect on the resultant image is minimal - sharp images.

    At the opposite end, the resonance becomes - say (I have no idea if this is the correct value, but you get the idea) - less than 10% of the shutter open speed so the amount of light that affects the exposure is minimised so we see very little effect on the resultant image - sharp images.

    Somewhere in between you will see a minimum of clarity where the exposure time approximately equals the resonance time. You'd expect shutter speeds either side of this minimum to show less blurring as the shutter either "sees" the resonance less (shorter shutter speeds) or the effect it has on the image becomes less as a percentage of exposure time (longer shutter speeds).

    This would lead to a U shaped curve of sharpness vs shutter speed which would change depend on lens and camera - which is what we see.
     
  20. David A

    David A Mu-43 All-Pro

    Sep 30, 2011
    Brisbane, Australia
    Perhaps. At the moment all we have is conjecture and it seems not everyone is having a problem. I certainly haven't noticed any issues with my 40-150 or 12-50 that I wouldn't put down to my shaky hands.