Another WTF Panasonic moment...

[Stanga]

I checked out the manuals for the G85 and GX85 (a particularly dull and confusing task if you don't own the camera and can't "play along") and neither specifically stated anything about saving any image stabilization settings to the C slots, nor did did I see a listing of what settings can't be saved. I find it hard to believe you can't even turn off IBIS in a "C" slot, but this is a "WTF Panasonic???" thread, so I guess I shouldn't be surprised?

The advanced manual doesn't cover everything in specifics. As anyone who ever owned a NICAM VHS recorder knows, how many of us could understand all of the detail in those manuals? Most pages were never read.
I haven't got my G80/85 close by right now, but on the GX8 I can store the IBIS settings to taste in C. I have for instance switched off Left-Right IBIS detection for sports and BIF mode in one of the C settings. I even have the Fn keys reconfigured for different C settings.

 

[wjiang]

@wjiang I am afraid I missed any useful workarounds here. Would you be so kind to recap one or two for me? Or link to them?

Thanks,

-SiP

Unfortunately the workarounds all pertain to Olympus MySets, which are able to be recalled while the dials are set to PASM. The settings changed after a recall in such a way do not get reset on power off because you're actually in PASM.

 

[gcogger]

Seems many do. But if I have a dozen switches in my home, and all but one of them turn the lights on when flipped up, but that other one works the opposite, it is not installed correctly.

It seems to me that the problem is installing 11 switches from a manufacturer that follows one standard, and one from a manufacturer that follows a different one. It's not wrong, just not what you're used to. It's like someone owning 11 Olympus zoom lenses and then buying a Panasonic one, and trying to claim the Panasonic one is faulty because it zooms in the 'wrong' direction.

This is akin to data loss in computer interfaces. The fact that anything reverts in the interface without user interaction is just plain wrong.

I really don't understand that analogy - it doesn't seem to relate to what we're discussing. The closest situation I can think of is rather old, when equipment used to have 'DIP' switches for setting things like baud rate for a serial interface. In that case, while you could possibly override the settings while the equipment was running, you would definitely expect the settings to be as per the switch settings if you turned the equipment off and on again.

 

[DanS]

Why? You don't expect the settings in the camera to reset to defaults when power cycling in other modes. They stick unless you use the reset to default function.

However, we do when want them to cycle when we have set them to specific values and then saved them to a custom setting.

Perhaps you should look into setting up custom function buttons.

Please read the above paragraph carefully. Afterwards, if you still feel the current behavior is better, we simply don't shoot anywhere near the same way and we just simply disagree on what makes a good, ergonomic interface (which I do for a living BTW).

Well, you are very much in the minority regardless of what you do for a living!

 

[DanS]

Not to beat this to death LOL
But it is not a custom "setting", it is a custom "mode", hence it being located on the mode dial. Therefore it should behave like other modes.

As for being in the minority, I guess I'll have to accept that. New ways of doing things rarely start out being popular.

I would put forward that being a custom mode, means it's different, and thus shouldn't be assumed to work the same way.


New isn't always better, I've lost count how many times I've had to pound that into the head of a UX engineer.

 

[TNcasual]

I agree with @ScottinPollock

I would use the custom dial position to create a baseline, knowing that there would be potential changes as I am shooting. I would want those changes to be sticky through power cycles as the shoot goes on. If I want to revert back to the baseline, then a simple flick of the dial to and fro would go back to it.

Since this is apparently not how Panasonic cameras work, I would suggest that @ScottinPollock looks into an Olympus camera. Olympus decouples their MySets from the custom dial setting. You can set a MySet to a dial position (a C position if you have a camera with those available) but you don't have to. To go to a MySet does take a quick menu dive, but nothing too difficult. Once you go to the MySet baseline, the camera functions as normal in whatever PASM mode you have it in, with the MySet baseline. Any subsequent changes are kept through power cycles until you reactivate the MySet.

That is the way I would want it to function. I would not get along with Panasonic's system, either.

 

[DanS]

@DanS So you don't make numerous changes while in a custom mode? Even ISO?

All the time, but as i mentioned that's what remapping the function buttons are for.

 

[DanS]

Think of it this way the custom modes coupled with the function button mapping let you turn one camera into multiple cameras that function completely differently.

 

[retiredfromlife]

If my camera sleeps or I turn it off, I am now faced with the chore of reinstating those changes with multiple dives into the menus. That hardly makes using C registers convenient (which by design is what it was meant to be).

If you load a "C" setting then change ISO or exposure compensation and the camera goes into sleep, when it wakes up you loose those ISO and exposure compensation values. Is that correct?

I can understand loosing the setting if the camera is turned off but not going to sleep. If that happens I could see how my G85 has the same issue.
Now my camera is setup the way I tend to use it I no longer use the "C" modes.

 

[pellicle]

No other camera I have used behaves this way.

gosh ... and so you've grown into a camera that allows you to customise presets that are blasted the next time you change them ... sounds just like the arguments we have on WWW development with people wanting a SAVE button on their documents and those who simply expect all changes (by keystroke) are saved (then bitch when there is no undo).

I like this camera, but there are a LOT of idiosyncrasies that simply don't exist in other cameras.

I'd call that an advantage or therefore all cameras would be the same. You could always try learning about your new camera, rather than getting cranky when its not the Olympus with a Panasonic badge.

Just my thoughts, but it seems like you just don't like to change how you do things? Do you think that coming from Canon or Nikon to Panasonic (or Olympus) was / is without issue?

 

[Toddster]

Well after reading this entire debate and giving it quite a bit of thought I may be coming around to the OP way of thinking. Earlier in this thread I commented that I did not agree and that I wouldn't want the Panasonic menu to change. I do however believe that a compelling argument has been made concerning the changes you make being sticky through a sleep cycle. I do however think that I would want them reset with an actual power cycle (I reserve the right to change my mind on that in the future though). I would always want a change away from and back to the C mode to recall the stored value and discard any changes. I agree that is any easy 'reset' method that gets back to your saved C mode settings. I would think that the behavior itself could easily be programed into the Panasonic setup menu. A simple "C mode sticky during power cycle?" choice would be great.

 

[gcogger]

We've all said our piece; we simply don't all agree. I'll exit at this point, as there's nothing constructive to be gained by repeating the same arguments

 

[TNcasual]

There is nothing wrong with different people have different needs and wants regarding their gear. I like the suggestion from @Toddster about have a software option that allows you to toggle how the custom sets work. That seems like it could be implemented via firmware update.

 

[saladin]

As mentioned previously, Not the slightest bit annoyed that changes arent "saved" through power off cycles.

But not "saved" through a sleep cycle seems like an unwanted gremlin. I'll check the Gx8 for this when i get a moment. You'd think a firmware change would easily solve this aspect.

 

[WaltP]

Thanks for your rant. Yes, wonderful little camera, but frustrating in such little things, makes one wonder. I could see the Sleep issue being fixed with a firmware update,also the Information screen, but the rest is just not well thought out for the user.
Still, glad we are able to express our frustration without needing to trash the entire experience. I can hardly wait for the GX95 and wonder what tiny flaws we'll find in that. I hope they are different from these.