Another 20% Outlet Sale

jcm5

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Received my E-M5ii from the last 20% sale. I'm a little disappointed as there are several small scratches in the silver finish of the EVF housing. More of a concern is the 5500 shutter actuations. I know it's a refurbished item, but that's higher than I was expecting.

Keep it?
Return it?

Thanks!
Interesting, I've ordered from the store myself and it had like 200 actuations, and I've seen others say similar things.
 

01115889

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The 9-18mm, 8mm FE and a couple of PRO zooms are currently available at the outlet. I guess there are no 20% off promotions running at the moment?
 

tympman

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I've previously bought a refurbished e-pl5 and e-pm2 and both had shutter actuations of a couple hundred. Both looked new. I guess yhats why this one is disappointing. 5500 seems like more than normal,even if it is refurbished.
 

Jonathan F/2

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Received my E-M5ii from the last 20% sale. I'm a little disappointed as there are several small scratches in the silver finish of the EVF housing. More of a concern is the 5500 shutter actuations. I know it's a refurbished item, but that's higher than I was expecting.

Keep it?
Return it?

Thanks!
5500 is high for a refurb. That's straight up used! I honestly think refurbs should be sold with 999 or less clicks. After that, they should be just sold as used inventory. What's messed up, someone probably got an E-M1 with 50 clicks. I'd return it. I haven't even cracked 5k on either my bodies, and I shoot quite a bit!
 
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5500 is high for a refurb. That's straight up used! I honestly think refurbs should be sold with 999 or less clicks. After that, they should be just sold as used inventory.
Ummm... No.

There is no use limit on what can be classified as refurbished. The only criteria for an item to be deemed "refurbished" is that the manufacturer has tested it and certified that the camera functions properly.

It's no different than when looking at a used car versus a certified pre-owned. A certified pre-owned car may have more miles on it than a used car. The real difference between the two is that the certified car has gone through a serious of manufacturer checks who verify the functionality of the car.

It's no different with a camera. A certified device may have more shutter activations than a used one, but as long as it's certified then it should be a functioning perfectly.

Also, isn't the EM1 shutter rated for something like 150,000 activations? At 5,500, that's only 3.7% of its rated life. That's equivalent to you owning a car with a 100,000 power train warranty, and selling it with 3,700 miles on it because it's "well used".

If the OP is concerned about the durability of his camera, then buy the extended 2 year warranty for $79 and call it a day. That's what I did when I bought my refurb EM1.
 

cptobvious

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Personally I'd return it. It's not just the wear to the shutter but the other components that would concern me. My E-M10 has less than 5K shutter count after a year of use and its IBIS is starting to make noises that my E-PL7 doesn't. Also, the last 2 refurbed cameras I bought from Olympus were pristine and had less than 100 clicks each.
 
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The 9-18mm, 8mm FE and a couple of PRO zooms are currently available at the outlet. I guess there are no 20% off promotions running at the moment?
Next possible promo code is likely Memorial Day weekend. Olympus usually picks a holiday weekend to release a coupon. You might check out OlympusGirl on ebay who also sells refurbs - I have posted a separate thread in the hot deals section ("Olympus refurbs (not from Olympus)"). She is an authorized dealer. Her prices are a bit cheaper than the Olympus outlet to begin with and she doesn't charge sales tax so your net price will be similar to what you might get at Olympus outlet with the coupon, since Olympus does charge sales tax.
 

demiro

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Ummm... No.

There is no use limit on what can be classified as refurbished. The only criteria for an item to be deemed "refurbished" is that the manufacturer has tested it and certified that the camera functions properly.

It's no different than when looking at a used car versus a certified pre-owned. A certified pre-owned car may have more miles on it than a used car. The real difference between the two is that the certified car has gone through a serious of manufacturer checks who verify the functionality of the car.

It's no different with a camera. A certified device may have more shutter activations than a used one, but as long as it's certified then it should be a functioning perfectly.

Also, isn't the EM1 shutter rated for something like 150,000 activations? At 5,500, that's only 3.7% of its rated life. That's equivalent to you owning a car with a 100,000 power train warranty, and selling it with 3,700 miles on it because it's "well used".

If the OP is concerned about the durability of his camera, then buy the extended 2 year warranty for $79 and call it a day. That's what I did when I bought my refurb EM1.
The difference with vehicles is that you know the mileage before you buy.
 

dougpayne

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My black E-M5ii refurb looked brand new and had zero clicks on the shutter. Guess it's potluck on what you get.

Doug
 
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The difference with vehicles is that you know the mileage before you buy.
So you'd rather buy a used vehicle with say, 15,000 miles and no warranty rather than a certified vehicle with 25,000 miles and a warranty?

The E-M5 had a shutter life rating of 100,000 activations. I would assume that the E-M1 would be better, but even it it isn't, the camera is only 5.5% of the way through its "expected" life. Here's a discussion where an individual had over 320,000 activations on his E-M10, a lesser model than the "pro" E-M5 or E-M1 bodies.

5,500 activations is jack squat when talking about these cameras. Like I said earlier, that's like buying a car with a 100,000 mile powertrain warranty, and then dumping it when it has 5,500 miles on it because the engine is "well used". It's absurd.

Ultimately it's the OP's decision, and he can send it back if he wants. If they don't have any in stock, he'll have to wait for one to come in stock and be without the camera for that period of time. There's also the risk of getting a camera that is in worse shape physically (I've seen reports of people who buy refurbished Olympus cameras that have come with scratches, chipping paint, dirty sensors, etc.). It's a risk that he'd have to take. If it were me, I would keep the camera and just buy the extended warranty for $79 and call it a day. Again, 5,500 shutter activations is diddly squat for a pro camera body like this.
 
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My black E-M5ii refurb looked brand new and had zero clicks on the shutter. Guess it's potluck on what you get.

Doug
How does a refurbished camera have zero clicks on it? Even brand-new cameras come with shutter activations on them from the factory, where they're tested to ensure that they work properly.

A zero shutter count refurb just sounds like they're resetting the shutter count to 0, where you have no idea how many activations there have actually been. I mean, even if it's a store demo model, it's going to have clicks on it from people trying it out.

When I got my refurb E-M1, it was similar (very low shutter count). Honestly, the shutter count didn't bother me one bit. What I was more concerned with was the physical shape of the body (dents, scratches, chipping paint, etc.), which my camera had none of. I bought the extended warranty for $79 which will give me two years of coverage, so when something goes wrong (it's already starting with the skipping rear dial), I'll be covered and not have to pay for it. Keep in mind that this was a low shutter count camera (maybe even zero, I didn't check it until I had taken a number of shots, and even then it was below 100), and I'm already experiencing issues with it. So the fact that it reads zero shutter activations when you receive it can literally mean nothing in terms of the condition of the camera.
 

MaK543

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5500 is nothing to be concerned with if the rest of the body is OK. Olympus return is simple, but they really do take time to refund. It's listed as 15-20 business days, and they mean it!.
 

Jonathan F/2

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Ummm... No.

There is no use limit on what can be classified as refurbished. The only criteria for an item to be deemed "refurbished" is that the manufacturer has tested it and certified that the camera functions properly.

It's no different than when looking at a used car versus a certified pre-owned. A certified pre-owned car may have more miles on it than a used car. The real difference between the two is that the certified car has gone through a serious of manufacturer checks who verify the functionality of the car.

It's no different with a camera. A certified device may have more shutter activations than a used one, but as long as it's certified then it should be a functioning perfectly.

Also, isn't the EM1 shutter rated for something like 150,000 activations? At 5,500, that's only 3.7% of its rated life. That's equivalent to you owning a car with a 100,000 power train warranty, and selling it with 3,700 miles on it because it's "well used".

If the OP is concerned about the durability of his camera, then buy the extended 2 year warranty for $79 and call it a day. That's what I did when I bought my refurb EM1.
Why should he pay $79 extra versus the person who got less than 50 clicks? 5500 clicks sounds like sloppy QC to me. If he exchanges it, he'll probably has a pretty high chance of getting a lower mileage body.
 
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Why should he pay $79 extra versus the person who got less than 50 clicks? 5500 clicks sounds like sloppy QC to me. If he exchanges it, he'll probably has a pretty high chance of getting a lower mileage body.
Because I got one with less than 100 clicks on it and the rear dial is already skipping.

Olympus' QC on their "refurbished" items is utter shit, and shutter count is no indication of whether the camera will continue to operate without fault. See my above post where I linked to a thread with an individual who had over THREE HUNDRED THOUSAND clicks on their E-M10 and it was still working fine.

As my personal example shows, getting a "lower mileage body" in no way, shape, or form guarantees that the body will be trouble free. I've owned the camera for about a month and already noticed the rear dial skipping. While I'm covered under the 3 month refurbished warranty, once those three months are up who's to say that the dial won't start acting up again? Or the rubber grip won't start peeling off? Or the dials won't fall off like they have on various other Olympus cameras?

If you need one repair and it's out of warranty, the extended warranty already paid for itself. And judging from the number of issues I've seen reported with various Olympus cameras, I'd say it's a safe bet to assume that something will likely occur at some point of ownership with the camera. For me, it already has after only one month, and that's with a "low mileage body".
 

demiro

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So you'd rather buy a used vehicle with say, 15,000 miles and no warranty rather than a certified vehicle with 25,000 miles and a warranty?

The E-M5 had a shutter life rating of 100,000 activations. I would assume that the E-M1 would be better, but even it it isn't, the camera is only 5.5% of the way through its "expected" life. Here's a discussion where an individual had over 320,000 activations on his E-M10, a lesser model than the "pro" E-M5 or E-M1 bodies.

5,500 activations is jack squat when talking about these cameras. Like I said earlier, that's like buying a car with a 100,000 mile powertrain warranty, and then dumping it when it has 5,500 miles on it because the engine is "well used". It's absurd.

Ultimately it's the OP's decision, and he can send it back if he wants. If they don't have any in stock, he'll have to wait for one to come in stock and be without the camera for that period of time. There's also the risk of getting a camera that is in worse shape physically (I've seen reports of people who buy refurbished Olympus cameras that have come with scratches, chipping paint, dirty sensors, etc.). It's a risk that he'd have to take. If it were me, I would keep the camera and just buy the extended warranty for $79 and call it a day. Again, 5,500 shutter activations is diddly squat for a pro camera body like this.
I'd rather buy certified with 25k vs used with 15k. But I'd also rather buy used with 15k than certified with unknown miles. That's the issue here. Buyers don't know miles (clicks).

I agree about keeping the camera with 5500 clicks. If someone only wants a super-low-mileage body, or can't live with the fact that someone else got a body with 50 clicks and they did not, they probably shouldn't be buying refurb. At the same time Oly may want to define what refurb means, and what they do as part of that process. Too many lenses and bodies are reported with obvious defects lately that make it seem like nothing is done as part of refurb process.
 
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I agree about keeping the camera with 5500 clicks. If someone only wants a super-low-mileage body, or can't live with the fact that someone else got a body with 50 clicks and they did not, they probably shouldn't be buying refurb.
No argument there. Either buy used from a forum where the seller can document and prove the shutter count, or buy new.

At the same time Oly may want to define what refurb means, and what they do as part of that process. Too many lenses and bodies are reported with obvious defects lately that make it seem like nothing is done as part of refurb process.
Well like you said, recently there have been reports about poor quality items coming out of the Olympus refurb store. Things like cameras with dirty sensors, decentered lenses, etc. Their QC on these refurb items is really pretty shitty, and the only saving grace is that they come with the ability to return the item and either get a replacement or a refund, as well as with a 3 month warranty with the option to extend that warranty to 2 years (which with Olympus' QC track-record and cost of repairs, seems like a no-brainer IMO).

As far as what Olympus defines as a refurb, they do that on their refurb webite (here's a link to it). They say "We support Olympus Certified Reconditioned products with a 90-day repair warranty and 30-day money back guarantee." They never mention condition of the items or amount of use, and that's what they deliver. A product at a discounted price with a 3 month warranty and 1 month money back guarantee. For those who feel that they received an item that was too well used (outside of something that is physically damaged like dents, dirty sensors, or marked glass), then they really shouldn't be buying certified gear. Like I said earlier, if this is a concern then either pony up the money and buy it new, or buy it used where the seller can document the physical condition of the item prior to selling it, and take the risk of not having a warranty.
 

tkbslc

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As far as what Olympus defines as a refurb, they do that on their refurb webite (here's a link to it). They say "We support Olympus Certified Reconditioned products with a 90-day repair warranty and 30-day money back guarantee." They never mention condition of the items or amount of use, and that's what they deliver. A product at a discounted price with a 3 month warranty and 1 month money back guarantee. For those who feel that they received an item that was too well used (outside of something that is physically damaged like dents, dirty sensors, or marked glass), then they really shouldn't be buying certified gear. Like I said earlier, if this is a concern then either pony up the money and buy it new, or buy it used where the seller can document the physical condition of the item prior to selling it, and take the risk of not having a warranty.
Ironically that's the same warranty and returns that Adorama and B+H offer on their used products. KEH goes a step further with 6 months warranty.
 

tympman

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Hey, OP here. Thanks for all the replies.

Buying returns has always been a good investment for me. Something like 40% off from new, and they look new. Both my epl5 and epm2 were like that. My Canon T2i and 70d were as well.

My em5ii has several scratches (small) on the viewfinder/"prism" housing, and a smaller one on the bottom plate. It's the combo of those things that makes me wonder if the 5500 clicks were "highway miles", and no problem, or if the 5500 clicks included drops onto a counter in a store, and the dials are gonna start poppin' off (figuratively).
 

Jonathan F/2

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Because I got one with less than 100 clicks on it and the rear dial is already skipping.

Olympus' QC on their "refurbished" items is utter shit, and shutter count is no indication of whether the camera will continue to operate without fault. See my above post where I linked to a thread with an individual who had over THREE HUNDRED THOUSAND clicks on their E-M10 and it was still working fine.

As my personal example shows, getting a "lower mileage body" in no way, shape, or form guarantees that the body will be trouble free. I've owned the camera for about a month and already noticed the rear dial skipping. While I'm covered under the 3 month refurbished warranty, once those three months are up who's to say that the dial won't start acting up again? Or the rubber grip won't start peeling off? Or the dials won't fall off like they have on various other Olympus cameras?

If you need one repair and it's out of warranty, the extended warranty already paid for itself. And judging from the number of issues I've seen reported with various Olympus cameras, I'd say it's a safe bet to assume that something will likely occur at some point of ownership with the camera. For me, it already has after only one month, and that's with a "low mileage body".
The rear dial skipping is a factory issue (with multiple user reports as evidence) and I'd heavily argue with Olympus that it should be fixed on their dime regardless if it's in-warranty or not. In my opinion, 5500 clicks amounts to being heavily used putting significant usage on a the mechanical and electronic components of the camera. I'd say if he exchanged the E-M1, he'd have a fairly high chance of receiving a lower mileage body from Olympus.
 
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In my opinion, 5500 clicks amounts to being heavily used putting significant usage on a the mechanical and electronic components of the camera.
Haha, so what do you do then, sell all of your cameras when they have more than 3,000 clicks on them and buy new ones because the ones you owned have been "heavily used"?

There's a reason why these cameras have shutter life ratings, and if a shutter has a rated life of 100,000+ activations, 5,500 is not "heavily used". In fact, it's less than 10% of the way through its life. But it's clear that none of this effects your view of what is deemed "heavily used", regardless of what the manufacturer of the camera says.

The bottom line is that any item less than 10% of the way through its rated life is far from "heavily used", regardless of what anybody thinks.
 

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