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An interesting comment about the E-M5 Mk II

Discussion in 'Olympus Cameras' started by OzRay, Feb 6, 2015.

  1. OzRay

    OzRay Mu-43 Legend

    Jan 29, 2010
    South Gippsland, Australia
    Ray, not Oz
    From: http://visualsciencelab.blogspot.com.au/ (Hang on! When did VSL gain an Oz URL?):

    Now if the above is the case, then is there a chance that the new technology can take a simple 16MP shot, sampling just three colours (and maybe white)?
     
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  2. Ramsey

    Ramsey Mu-43 Top Veteran

    718
    Jan 9, 2013
    Zagreb, Croatia
    I don't think so (from my completely non-educated, non-technical point of view), not in one take (as it needs at least 4 exposures) and not with IBIS on. They said the sensor shift needed for the sensor shift uses the 5 axis IBIS.

    That said, i'd welcome the addition of a firmware update somewhere along the line to enable the option of 3-4 exposures, avoid the additional Mp count and just focus on color accuracy.
     
  3. T N Args

    T N Args Agent Photocateur

    Dec 3, 2013
    Adelaide, Australia
    call me Arg
    That approach seems to sacrifice the extra resolution and give nothing back in return?
     
  4. LowriderS10

    LowriderS10 Monkey with a camera.

    May 19, 2013
    Canada
    Except colour accuracy...and when you look at the pictures just in terms of that, the difference is actually quite impressive.
     
  5. T N Args

    T N Args Agent Photocateur

    Dec 3, 2013
    Adelaide, Australia
    call me Arg
    No, it has no more colour accuracy than the 40 Mp shot -- I think.
     
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  6. RichardB

    RichardB Snapshooter

    441
    Nov 19, 2012
    Maryland, US
    Richard
    I've seen others pose this question. Half the exposures would make the image-taking faster and the file size smaller. My naive guess is that a firmware update should easily give polychromatic sampling at lower resolution. But I seem to recall that the half-photosite movement was used for some function besides just higher resolution - maybe to align the multiple images? So maybe they can't do without it so easily.

    Imaging Resource has an interesting review of the Mark II, with sample photos comparing its high resolution mode against the Nikon D810 and the Sony A7R. It's hard to see a lot of difference in color fidelity, but there are a couple shots showing how Olympus's sensor-shifting eliminates the moire distortions that can afflict static Bayer sensors. It's one thing to get rid of the anti-aliasing filter, but Olympus (like Sigma) has gotten rid of the need for an anti-aliasing filter.
     
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  7. owczi

    owczi nareteV 34-uM

  8. davidzvi

    davidzvi Mu-43 All-Pro

    Aug 12, 2012
    Outside Boston MA
    David
    Correct, but if you're only looking for color accuracy and don't want the larger file? And 8 exposures means a tripod, 3 exposures? That might open up using it hand held.
     
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  9. LowriderS10

    LowriderS10 Monkey with a camera.

    May 19, 2013
    Canada
    Whoops, my apologies...I misunderstood your question.

    You're quite correct, colour accuracy would be the same. I think the proposed option is simply one that would allow for a wider range of shooting situations/subjects due to fewer exposures.
     
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  10. jnewell

    jnewell Mu-43 All-Pro

    Jun 23, 2011
    Boston, MA
    Thom Hogan posted the following (no guarantees that it's technically accurate):

     
  11. bikerhiker

    bikerhiker Mu-43 All-Pro

    Dec 24, 2013
    Canada
    David

    Well, it spits out a 64MP RAW file and currently there are no dedicated RAW processor that can deal with this. Assuming that there is/are software that are designed for manipulating this RAW file, you can output a 16MP Super Shot if you want to I suppose.

    I think Olympus was only interested in providing a 40MP JPEG Super Shot output because that would be the benefit of having one. While color accuracy is a second plus, Foveon cameras with their own sensors never did take off nor sold in huge amounts despite the fact they are available to provide perceived better color accuracy and higher resolution.
     
  12. ean10775

    ean10775 Mu-43 All-Pro

    Jan 31, 2011
    Cleveland, Ohio
    Eric
    I think that's been due more to the handling/performance of the cameras that feature them, as well as the complications/limitations in working with the files from the Foveon sensors than simply a lack of appreciation for the image quality.
     
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  13. bikerhiker

    bikerhiker Mu-43 All-Pro

    Dec 24, 2013
    Canada
    David
    I don't think it's anymore complex than working with a Hasselblad or a Phaseback either, with gigantic files which require a lot computing horsepower to appreciate them. But anyhow, I have a friend who owns a DP Merrill and soon a Quattro and I really love the quality of the files it puts out. This E-M5 mark 2 spits out a 40MP JPEG that already looks nice and sharp. No need to wait for SPP to turn its RAW into a nice quality JPEG which is a very SLOW process even with a fast computer. :biggrin:
     
  14. gr8Shot

    gr8Shot Mu-43 Regular

    99
    Nov 13, 2013
    You can absolutely get better color information if you sample each logical pixel with different physical sensor elements and don't increase the resolution. In a Bayer pattern sensor, there are two physical green sensor elements for every red and blue sensor element. RAW processing software combines the values from physical sensor elements into a logical RGB pixel that is subsequently used to create an image rendering like JPEG a.k.a. RAW data sensor element values are combined to create the logical pixels that make up a JPEG or other image format.

    The new Oly shifting sensor will produce RAW data that could be used to create higher resolution images with more logical pixels OR just better color interpretations with the same number of pixels (or fewer). It's all up to the RAW processing software. We'll have to see if anyone writes such a RAW converter for better color.

    You don't even need a shifting sensor. You could take existing RAW data values from a standard sensor and just group adjacent sensor elements to produce fewer logical RGB pixels with greater colour accuracy in the final rendering. A simple linear regression algorithm would do as a start.
     
  15. OzRay

    OzRay Mu-43 Legend

    Jan 29, 2010
    South Gippsland, Australia
    Ray, not Oz
    I'd be surprised if there wasn't a Viewer 4 coming out to accommodate the pixel shifted files.
     
  16. Klorenzo

    Klorenzo Mu-43 All-Pro

    Mar 10, 2014
    Lorenzo
    I thought that a red photosite can read nothing but red due to some kind of physical filter cutting out (reflecting) all other frequencies.

    If this is not the case and you actually can change the "pixels" color you could do a lot of nice tricks: real monochrome sensor, tune the pixels colors depending on WB, on the subject (if there is little green I convert most of the green pixels to record color), etc.

    EDIT: obviously red means "something close to red" so probably there is some overlap.

    EDIT2: ok, now I get it: is the same photosite that moves around and read the red where there was the blue. ok :)
     
  17. fortwodriver

    fortwodriver Mu-43 Top Veteran

    958
    Nov 15, 2013
    Toronto, Ontario, Canada
    Frank
    Yup... Thom the "expert" pissing on theories as usual.