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an interesting blog entry - switching from Canon/Fuji

Discussion in 'Open Discussion' started by kevinparis, May 11, 2016.

  1. kevinparis

    kevinparis Cantankerous Scotsman

    Feb 12, 2010
    Gent, Belgium
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  2. Levster

    Levster Mu-43 Top Veteran

    Thank you for posting that, which looks like it was hot off the press! I have been tempted a few times to try Fuji for the high ISO performance. I briefly tried an X-M1 with the 35mm 1.4, but that was terribly slow in operation. I couldn't quite being myself to stump up the cash for a X-T10 or X-T1, and the equivalent lens prices compared to mu43 put me off.
     
  3. Replytoken

    Replytoken Mu-43 Hall of Famer

    May 7, 2012
    Puget Sound
    Ken
    But the grass was always GREENER when I shot Fuji slide film back in the day! :biggrin:
    Love it or hate it, Fuji has always seemed to have their own take on the color green.

    --Ken
     
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  4. ijm5012

    ijm5012 Mu-43 Hall of Famer

    Oct 2, 2013
    Pittsburgh, PA
    Ian
    A good article to read, but when I got to the bit about his need for a robust, durable camera, I had a bit of a chuckle. A brief 15 minute google search would have returned the variety of build quality issues Olympus users have encountered with the E-M1 and E-M5 II.

    Yes, I'm sure someone will chime in with something along the lines of "well I've owned two E-M1 bodies since launch and haven't had a single issue", but the reality of the matter is that there are indeed durability issues with Olympus cameras. Failing rear dials, lug straps coming out of the camera, dials falling off, etc. All of those are serious issues that Olympus really needs to remedy if they want to be taken as a serious, "pro" quality gear (and that's not even including the "PRO" lenses, which are notorious for self-destructing lens hoods, and potentially weak lens-mounts in the case of the 12-40).

    I own an E-M1 along with two GH4's, and an even looking at selling one of my GH4's to get a second E-M1, but when it comes to actual build quality, the Panasonic's are a better camera in terms of robustness and reliability IMO. I've owned 6 Panasonic m43 cameras over the past 3 years, and have never encountered a single issue with any of them. The one Olympus camera I own, an E-M1, is already suffering from a failing rear dial, and that is one of Olympus' supposedly "refurbished" cameras (I highly doubt there is much refurbishing taking place).
     
  5. drd1135

    drd1135 Zen Snapshooter

    Mar 17, 2011
    Southwest Virginia
    Steve
    I recently sold my EM1 but mainly because I was always grabbing the EM5 II. Now this article has me thinking, whenever I was serious about a day of shooting I grabbed a mu43 body. (Usually these were Olympus but I did really like the GX7 and suspect the GX85 would be even better.) Mu43 simply has what I really need in a small package with a wonderful set of lenses. My new "greener" toy is a used RX1 which I couldn't resist because of the marvelous lens and sensor it has. Still, this camera is an "art" camera for when I have time to dwell on a shot. If I need a camera to perform it's still the EM5II. I have no doubt that the pro DLSRs are wonderful performers but for an amateur like myself who likes small cameras this article made perfect sense.
     
    Last edited: May 11, 2016
  6. pdk42

    pdk42 One of the "Eh?" team

    Jan 11, 2013
    Leamington Spa, UK
    A very interesting read. As someone who recently went looking for greener grass in the form of the A7rii but came scurying back, I can understand entirely the author's comments. The Olympus system isn't perfect, but it gets so much right that I doubt I'll be making another venture away from it.

    Regarding Levster's point about Fuji doing better at high ISO - I'd suggest doing some careful research first. In testing I did I found that once Olympus raw files had NR added there was vanishingly small differences between them an Fuji raws. Remember that Fuji files have baked in NR that softens the resulting images.
     
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  7. gryphon1911

    gryphon1911 Mu-43 Hall of Famer

    Mar 13, 2014
    Central Ohio, USA
    Andrew
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  8. davidzvi

    davidzvi Mu-43 All-Pro

    Aug 12, 2012
    Outside Boston MA
    David
    I wonder if he's referring more to the feeling of the bodies than of "actual" build quality. It's something I've noticed between m4/3 and Fuji bodies, m4/3 just tend to feel more solid/dense. It's the same thing I noticed between early Nikon and Canon DSLRs, specifically the D70 and Rebel.
     
  9. eteless

    eteless Mu-43 All-Pro

    Jun 20, 2014
    I have two E-M1s which have seen better days as they have (very literally) been around the world and back, both have had the top plate replaced (dials failed), one had the lugs replaced, the rear rubber replaced due to delamination, both are wearing through the paint, and one replacement HLD-7 grip due to failure.

    Yet I'm still confidant that every time I pick them up I will get a usable result, they're reliable and more importantly very predictable cameras. While some of the issues I have had are common to other users I don't hold it against the camera, I've been around enough "professional" equipment with some level of "serious" problems and often far less usability (rubber falling off seems to be the most common in my experience, every professional camera ever has some degree of it if the equipment is actually used).

    No camera is immune to build quality issues if the production run is long enough and the user base large enough, especially when handled in a "professional" environment. I'm less worried about issues and more worried with how a company handles problems and in my experience Olympus has been excellent.
     
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  10. ijm5012

    ijm5012 Mu-43 Hall of Famer

    Oct 2, 2013
    Pittsburgh, PA
    Ian
    That's certainly a possibility. I would agree that the E-M1 feels better built than my GH4, just from a density stand point (and not that the GH4 is poor in this regard either), but when it comes to true build quality i.e. robustness, Panasonic is the winner IMO, no contest.
     
  11. Jonathan F/2

    Jonathan F/2 Mu-43 Hall of Famer

    Aug 10, 2011
    Los Angeles, CA
    All camera systems have advantages. The photographer in the article just got along better with Olympus, but another photographer might of preferred Fuji. Honestly, I don't see a big difference between APS-C and M43. I use Nikon FF for serious shooting, mainly for the show value if on paid gigs and for the combination of excellent C-AF and FF image quality. Olympus just rocks for travel/street and the M43 primes are razor sharp. I keep a Sony A7 for it's excellent MF lens capabilities and access to some specialized lenses like the Helios 44 which produces a look not possible with modern glass.

    In regards to the Olympus build quality, I think the newer bodies built in Vietnam seem to have higher QC. My two E-M5 II bodies haven't shown any hiccups after using them hard in the field.
     
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  12. bjurasz

    bjurasz Mu-43 Regular

    127
    Dec 10, 2014
    Cedar Park
    I'm a "switcher" myself and I have written elsewhere how impressed I have become with my E-M10 and kit lens. This after being in the Canon world with a 40D, a 1D Mark II, and lots of fast L glass. But I will tell you this, a big thing about the Canon 1-series bodies is the whole robust, durable thingy. Those things are built like military tanks because their intended audience (mostly professional photojournalists) need a durable camera that will not let them down in difficult situations. No consumer camera is going to attempt to meet those needs, let alone fulfill them.

    But yeah, the grass is not necessarily greener in full frame land. :)
     
  13. hazwing

    hazwing Mu-43 All-Pro

    Nov 25, 2012
    Australia
    He hasn't had his m43 system for long, still probably in the honeymoon stage. I wonder if he will change his mind again in a years time? He seemed to really love his Fujis for a while..
     
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  14. ijm5012

    ijm5012 Mu-43 Hall of Famer

    Oct 2, 2013
    Pittsburgh, PA
    Ian
    Haha, yes let's wait until the hood for his 12-40 falls off and is lost forever, the hood for the 40-150 explodes (I'm seeing a few of these instances being mentioned now), his rear dials quit working, and a strap lug falls out...

    Hopefully none of this happens to him, but these are all somewhat regular occurrences with the products he mentioned he owns. And as one of the other members mentioned, while Olympus wants to market the E-M1 as a "PRO" camera, something like the 1DX or D4/5 are in an entirely different league when it comes to build quality (and there's a price associated with that as well).
     
  15. pdk42

    pdk42 One of the "Eh?" team

    Jan 11, 2013
    Leamington Spa, UK
    The annoying thing about Oly reliability is that it's relatively simple things that fail - dials and lugs being the two big ones. Oly have been excellent in covering these under warranty but it's still no excuse. I hope they get these simple things right in the E-M1ii.
     
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  16. pdk42

    pdk42 One of the "Eh?" team

    Jan 11, 2013
    Leamington Spa, UK
    Canon isn't perfect either. The hood on the 85/1.8 is a joke and falls apart in no time. Focus calibration is hit and miss (mostly miss in the case of the 5dii!). Reliability results based on real-world use show that Canon is NOT more reliable than Olympus:

    The Most (and Least) Reliable Digital Camera Brands
     
  17. ijm5012

    ijm5012 Mu-43 Hall of Famer

    Oct 2, 2013
    Pittsburgh, PA
    Ian
    Yep. In the case of the lugs it's using the proper thread locker, and with the rubber delamination it's using the proper adhesive. The dial is a bit more complicated since it isn't something as blatantly simple as using the proper adhesive, but it still shouldn't be an issue at all.

    Like you said, these are all "easy" things that really shouldn't be happening. It's not like it's an issue where the shutter mechanism is throwing oil on to the sensor, or the shutter fails prematurely. These are simple things that in reality shouldn't happen, yet when they do they tarnish the image of the brand. It's really a shame, because the perceived build quality is quite good, as are the external controls and button layout, but if the camera is going to give you issues in the field or cause you to question it, it's not much good.
     
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  18. ijm5012

    ijm5012 Mu-43 Hall of Famer

    Oct 2, 2013
    Pittsburgh, PA
    Ian
    That blog is looking at cameras in the $300-500 range, where I would expect there to be a number of issues based on cost-cutting. I'm more concerned with the "pro" market and associated pricing, so cameras like the GH4/GX8 from Panasonic, E-M1/E-M5 II from Olympus, a6000/6300/A7II from Sony, D7200/D500 from Nikon, 70D/80D/7DII from Canon, etc.

    When you start spending that amount of money on a camera, you would expect (at least I would) it to be void from issues that could be deemed as poor build quality and have a much lower defect rate.
     
  19. DoofClenas

    DoofClenas Who needs a Mirror!

    941
    Nov 9, 2012
    Traverse City, MI
    Clint
    Great morning read...thanks!
     
  20. Turbofrog

    Turbofrog Mu-43 Hall of Famer

    Mar 21, 2014
    I don't think anyone reasonably expects an E-M1 or GH4 to be in the same league as the durability of the 1D or D series of cameras that cost 4-5x as much...

    ... But the M4/3 flagships hold their own against anything that Fuji or Sony offer in that respect. Neither of those companies offer "pro" gear yet, either.
     
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