Alert : EM5 Mk3 Release this year - it’s (well nearly) official

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So what's going to be the differentiator between the em1ii and 5iii?
As far as pricing goes, the $1299 range would be the maximum in my opinion.
 

RyanM

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To get back to the point of this thread...
I think that, if the rumor is true and the EM5mkIII gets the EM1mkII sensor, that will be a solid upgrade. Adding good CDAF is a significant boost to keep up with the competition, that will help with both stills and video.

It seems that some people were/are hoping for the mkIII to be similar to the EM5mkI in terms of its tech. At the time, it was a 16MP sensor that had similar noise performance to 18MP APSC competition; you got the portability of m43 and lots of great features like 5-axis IBIS with no real IQ downsides (at least compared to other crop sensors, and smaller-than-expected downside compared to FF). I think we'd all love it if Olympus did that again with the mkIII; the 2019 equivalent would probably be something like a 22-24 MP sensor with noise performance similar to or maybe 1/2 stop better than the EM1mkII sensor. That would be great, but in the grand scheme of things those gains would be somewhat marginal compared to the EM1mkII sensor, but adding the R&D cost of a whole new sensor. As it is, maybe a mid-20s MP sensor is probably in the works, and is slated to be released with the EM1mkIII in a year or something.

But setting that aside, even "just" having the 5mkIII be an EM1mkII in an EM5 body is a solid upgrade. And it will undoubtedly be a great camera. From there the questions are: what feature frippery will be included, and what will they charge for it? Other than handheld high-res or some sort of motion-aware image stacking for greater DR (both of which I'd call unlikely), features probably won't move the needle for me. So depending on what they charge, the camera will either be "solid upgrade, competitive price; Oly is very much in the game" or "solid upgrade, a bit overpriced" or somewhere in between.
 
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So what's going to be the differentiator between the em1ii and 5iii?
As far as pricing goes, the $1299 range would be the maximum in my opinion.
Probably the size. Assuming the 5.3 doesn't grow a whole lot compared to the 5.2, it'll be quit a bit more compact than the 1.2. Other than that, maybe a new feature or two. But I'm fully expecting it to be a 1.2 in some new clothes.
 

speedy

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Enjoying the extra 2-3 stops of usable high ISO for starters.
That's also been around in various bodies for quite some time. Perhaps you simply bought into the wrong system to begin with? And it's not really a "fault" of upcoming camera.
Personally, I think it addresses one of the main complaints about the 5 series cameras that I see being commented on, that being AFC. They probably took a bit too long to address it, but it's likely happened. If the rumours are correct.
If it's too expensive for you, the best thing to do, is not buy one. If enough people do the same, then change may occur. Go buy what makes you happy, and go shoot with it
 

WT21

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HEY! BANG-BANG-BANG (knocks on wall loudly).

Keep it down over there. Some of us mods are trying to sleep over here and you are lighting up the report thread page!!

If not for us, then think of the children. What will they think, watching y'all fight all the time.

Don't make me come over there and read this whole thread!

:p
 
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You can’t shutter a thread in which I made my best joke ever!!! I even tried to milk it a second time.

I think the E-M5iii will be a decent middle tier camera for a middle tier Olympus mft price. That means it will be more than what most would like, but fit into Olympus’s plan for profit viability.
 

Bushboy

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It will come packaged very nicely with all the latest tech.
I imagine, it will also come packaged with a bonus free 25mm 1.8, two batteries and wall and USB chargers and 64 gig Olympus memory card.
 

davidzvi

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Personally I'd like them to use the E-M1.2 sensor with phase AF in a body somewhere in between the E-M5 and M10, then kill the M10.

Then use the sensor again in a simplified Pen F sized rangefinder.
 

wjiang

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Personally I'd like them to use the E-M1.2 sensor with phase AF in a body somewhere in between the E-M5 and M10, then kill the M10.

Then use the sensor again in a simplified Pen F sized rangefinder.
I think the E-M10 is one of their best selling models, possibly even more so than the E-M5s at this point. They are good enough with an EVF, at a good price point. An model as you've described would not be positioned between the E-M10 and E-M5, and would not be priced like an E-M10 to sell in such volumes, so I think would actually hurt profits for Olympus.

I do think that an E-M5 at this point needs PDAF - like it or not video AF is now very important, and there's nothing more frustrating for a parent than trying to AF on a moving child. The E-M1 Mk2 with firmware 3.0 is my first Olympus camera that can do it. They could just drop in the sensor, TruePic VIII, the basic C-AF algorithm, and skip most of the fancy AF group targets and high-speed options, pro-capture, etc. Oh, and single card slot would work fine.

While they're at it - for the next entry-level PENs and E-M10, drop in the E-M1 Mk1 16 MP sensor with its basic central non-cross-type PDAF array, combined with the TruePic VIII tweaked to apply the new C-AF algorithm for video. Good video AF would be a killer feature for parents.
 
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ac12

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Personally I'd like them to use the E-M1.2 sensor with phase AF in a body somewhere in between the E-M5 and M10, then kill the M10.

Then use the sensor again in a simplified Pen F sized rangefinder.
The EM10 is the entry level camera. Olympus cannot afford to kill it. Because then the $ entry point is raised significantly, and entry level market share is handed over to Panasonic (for m4/3) or Nikon/Canon for dSLRs.
In general, once you loose a customer to another brand, you may never get that customer back. With Panasonic, there is half a chance, because of the common m4/3 mount. But with Nikon/Canon, because the mount is different, you LOST the customer. And once they start to buy specific accessories and lenses, the hook is set deeper.

Besides, I as an EM1 owner bought the EM10, specifically to have a SMALL easy to carry m4/3 camera.
There have been times where I would grab the EM10, rather than the EM1, because it is small and light.

BTW, you are talking about down shifting the EM5 to be closer to the EM10, not enhancing with EM1-mk2 functionality. Or said another way, enhance the EM10, and kill the EM5.
That means giving up some of the advanced features everyone is wanting, to lower the price point. As mentioned, maybe the EM1-mk1's 16MP sensor rather than the mk2's 20MP sensor.
 
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davidzvi

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I think the E-M10 is one of their best selling models, possibly even more so than the E-M5s at this point. They are good enough with an EVF, at a good price point. An model as you've described would not be positioned between the E-M10 and E-M5, and would not be priced like an E-M10 to sell in such volumes, so I think would actually hurt profits for Olympus.

I do think that an E-M5 at this point needs PDAF - like it or not video AF is now very important, and there's nothing more frustrating for a parent than trying to AF on a moving child. The E-M1 Mk2 with firmware 3.0 is my first Olympus camera that can do it. They could just drop in the sensor, TruePic VIII, the basic C-AF algorithm, and skip most of the fancy AF group targets and high-speed options, pro-capture, etc. Oh, and single card slot would work fine.

While they're at it - for the next entry-level PENs and E-M10, drop in the E-M1 Mk1 16 MP sensor with its basic central non-cross-type PDAF array, combined with the TruePic VIII tweaked to apply the new C-AF algorithm for video. Good video AF would be a killer feature for parents.
The EM10 is the entry level camera. Olympus cannot afford to kill it. Because then the $ entry point is raised significantly, and entry level market share is handed over to Panasonic (for m4/3) or Nikon/Canon for dSLRs.
In general, once you loose a customer to another brand, you may never get that customer back. With Panasonic, there is half a chance, because of the common m4/3 mount. But with Nikon/Canon, because the mount is different, you LOST the customer. And once they start to buy specific accessories and lenses, the hook is set deeper.

Besides, I as an EM1 owner bought the EM10, specifically to have a SMALL easy to carry m4/3 camera.
There have been times where I would grab the EM10, rather than the EM1, because it is small and light.

BTW, you are talking about down shifting the EM5 to be closer to the EM10, not enhancing with EM1-mk2 functionality. Or said another way, enhance the EM10, and kill the EM5.
That means giving up some of the advanced features everyone is wanting, to lower the price point. As mentioned, maybe the EM1-mk1's 16MP sensor rather than the mk2's 20MP sensor.
I few points maybe to clarify:
  • The 16mp sensor from the E-M1 mkI had worse high ISO performance, so no I would not want to see that in another camera, sorry.
  • Move the E-M5 down or more the E-M10 up. Either way you say it amounts to the same. It's just we know the E-M5 mkIII is about to be released so that one moves down.
  • You have to take both parts of my post together. Make the rangefinder the cheaper entry, how well has the GX85 sold? Phase and EVF are a must if they want to compete with things like the X-E3, so again use that 20mp sensor.
  • If the X is a one off or limited series than OK the M10 / M5 / M1 are fine. If not than do they really need 4 SLR style bodies? IMHO all the companies have too many options in the contracting pool. But I'd hope with the 300 and the new 150-400 we will continue to see more development in that higher end area.
Just my thoughts.
 

wjiang

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I few points maybe to clarify:
  • The 16mp sensor from the E-M1 mkI had worse high ISO performance, so no I would not want to see that in another camera, sorry.
  • Move the E-M5 down or more the E-M10 up. Either way you say it amounts to the same. It's just we know the E-M5 mkIII is about to be released so that one moves down.
  • You have to take both parts of my post together. Make the rangefinder the cheaper entry, how well has the GX85 sold? Phase and EVF are a must if they want to compete with things like the X-E3, so again use that 20mp sensor.
  • If the X is a one off or limited series than OK the M10 / M5 / M1 are fine. If not than do they really need 4 SLR style bodies? IMHO all the companies have too many options in the contracting pool. But I'd hope with the 300 and the new 150-400 we will continue to see more development in that higher end area.
Just my thoughts.
I was not denying 20 MP for an E-M5 equivalent. I was suggesting 16 MP with PDAF for the E-M10.

The E-M1 did not have meaningfully worse high ISO perfomance. I went from an E-M5 to an E-M1 and high ISO was not a problem for me - long exposure noise was the issue. There are many happy users of the E-M1 who find it just fine.

How many E-M10 buyers outside of those of this forum would really care for a TINY improvement in high ISO performance? The 20 MP E-M1 II isn't that much better (I now have one). I think they'd pick hugely better AF. Most of the people that I know that bought an E-M10 were not enthusiasts like us... They stuck with kit lenses and maybe consider a fast prime.

As for the RF... I dunno, they seem to be a certain type of enthusiasts' dream but most of the high end RFs on m4/3 tank in general sales. E-P5, GX8, PEN-F...
 

davidzvi

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I was not denying 20 MP for an E-M5 equivalent. I was suggesting 16 MP with PDAF for the E-M10.

The E-M1 did not have meaningfully worse high ISO perfomance. I went from an E-M5 to an E-M1 and high ISO was not a problem for me - long exposure noise was the issue. There are many happy users of the E-M1 who find it just fine.

How many E-M10 buyers outside of those of this forum would really care for a TINY improvement in high ISO performance? The 20 MP E-M1 II isn't that much better (I now have one). I think they'd pick hugely better AF. Most of the people that I know that bought an E-M10 were not enthusiasts like us... They stuck with kit lenses and maybe consider a fast prime.

As for the RF... I dunno, they seem to be a certain type of enthusiasts' dream but most of the high end RFs on m4/3 tank in general sales. E-P5, GX8, PEN-F...
I've also owned the E-M1 mkI, along with the E-M10 mkI & II, the E-M5 mkII, and the E-P5. Currently I have the E-M1 mkII.

The E-M1 mkI had meaningfully worse high ISO performance in a world where no camera company can really afford a review that points it out as even a minor flaw. No the average user wouldn't notice. Sure 16mp is enough, but the 20mp has phase AF so why not. And a "good enough" sensor when you clearly have a better option just doesn't make sense to me.

The E-P5, Pen F, and GX8 aren't what they should release, they were ALL over priced. Though I did love how the E-P5 felt in my hand, solid and well machined. I'm talking about something like the GX85, an E-PL9 with an EVF and support for the FL-LM3 flash.
 

Hypilein

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The E-P5, Pen F, and GX8 aren't what they should release, they were ALL over priced.
This is the unfortunate truth about all premium rangefinder style bodies. Everytime one got released it was for an uncompetive price. So they sold poorly and the manufacturers decided that rangefinder bodies were not sought after. People like rangefinder bodies, but they don't like to pay a 200$/€ premium for them. The GX8 also had the problem of having a in some important parts better camera be released soon after and cheaper. I think if the GX85 had happened a year later we would have a proper GX9 today...
 

ac12

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This is the unfortunate truth about all premium rangefinder style bodies. Everytime one got released it was for an uncompetive price. So they sold poorly and the manufacturers decided that rangefinder bodies were not sought after. People like rangefinder bodies, but they don't like to pay a 200$/€ premium for them. ..
The problem is sales, accounting and a crystal ball.
If they think they won't sell a lot, they have to raise the price to recover the development cost and not loose money.
But if they raise price too high people won't buy.
If they don't raise the price enough, and they don't sell enough units, they don't recover the development cost and they loose money. And other product line have to support the money loosing product.

To keep the cost down, they have to design to use as much existing parts as possible to reduce the development/manufacturing cost.
But that means something similar to what we have, not something new.
Can they put the guts of a SLR into the body of a RF, with minimal additional cost? The more different you make it, the more the cost goes up.

IF a manufacturer would change their model and make only rangefinder style cameras rather than SLR style, then the picture changes, as the multiple RF models share development costs, and the mfg expects to sell them in enough volume to support the development cost.

Where there are BOTH RF and SLR, there is dilution.
They provide more choices for the customer, but increased development, manufacturing, marketing and sales cost is spread over 2 different styles.
Do they sell enough units to make it worth spending $$$$$ on both model lines? Or should they consolidate into a single SLR style line.
There is no easy answer.

GM shut down the Pontiac and Oldsmobile Divisions.
 

pdk42

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The problem is sales, accounting and a crystal ball.
If they think they won't sell a lot, they have to raise the price to recover the development cost and not loose money.
But if they raise price too high people won't buy.
If they don't raise the price enough, and they don't sell enough units, they don't recover the development cost and they loose money. And other product line have to support the money loosing product.

To keep the cost down, they have to design to use as much existing parts as possible to reduce the development/manufacturing cost.
But that means something similar to what we have, not something new.
Can they put the guts of a SLR into the body of a RF, with minimal additional cost? The more different you make it, the more the cost goes up.

IF a manufacturer would change their model and make only rangefinder style cameras rather than SLR style, then the picture changes, as the multiple RF models share development costs, and the mfg expects to sell them in enough volume to support the development cost.

Where there are BOTH RF and SLR, there is dilution.
They provide more choices for the customer, but increased development, manufacturing, marketing and sales cost is spread over 2 different styles.
Do they sell enough units to make it worth spending $$$$$ on both model lines? Or should they consolidate into a single SLR style line.
There is no easy answer.

GM shut down the Pontiac and Oldsmobile Divisions.
But the fundamental difference between RF and SLR styles is only cosmetic/packaging. Whether the EVF is on the top or the side is surely fairly inconsequential.
 

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