Alert : EM5 Mk3 Release this year - it’s (well nearly) official

ac12

Mu-43 All-Pro
Joined
Apr 24, 2018
Messages
1,745
Location
SF Bay Area, California, USA
I concur that the battery life with the 12-100 on my Pen F (same battery as the E-M1) is shorter than the battery life with the 12-100 on my E-M1 II. Luckily, my usage of the Pen F is not as demanding as using the E-M1 II, so not as noticeable.
In June I miss-timed it.
At a graduation, the battery went to "empty" just before the tassle turn, so I missed it. :eek: :mad:
Next year, I'm bringing the EM1-mk2.

I brought the EM1-mk1, because I did not have enough shutter time on the mk2, to trust it on a critical shoot.
But I got burned anyway.
 

mawz

Mu-43 Regular
Joined
Mar 2, 2013
Messages
82
A few thoughts.

1. I think Olympus is going to aim at the $999 pricepoint, and no more than $1199 at the top end. That means we'll see some parts-bin stuff in it, and the rest is stuff that will drive parts-bin stuff for the other bodies. Target will be the X-T30 and A6400, as the E-M1.2 is the competition for the X-T3 and A7000 (if the latter ever shows up)

2. As a result, I think the BLN-1 is gone. Right now Oly sells 5 cameras which use 3 batteries. the BLN-1 is E-M5.2 only. It makes sense to kill the oddball and settle on 2 batteries. Maybe they'll take a page from Nikon and offer BLH-1 capability in the inevitable grip. my bet is BLS-50 + USB charge as per the rumour.

3. A lighter, more plasticky E-M5 makes a lot of sense. Right now there's no weight advantage to the E-M5.2 over the E-M1.2 once you add the HLG-8G or ECG-II. Putting the E-M5.3 on a diet really helps with that. The BLS-50 also plays into that, as a bigger battery means more weight.

4. Remember that processor upgrades drive as much IQ gain as sensor upgrades. Look at the performance of the various 24MP APS-C sensors, which have been around since 2012 or so, but modern 24MP APS-C is much better in terms of IQ than my NEX-7 was. So while I believe we'll see the E-M1.2 sensor in the E-M5.3, I also think we'll see TruePic IX and get an IQ bump from that (I also suspect this will get HHHRes into the E-M5.3). We saw the E-M5.2 leapfrog the E-M1.1 in IQ terms and I expect the same from the E-M5.3. The E-M1.3 will be where a new sensor gets launched.

5. AF performance, especially AF-C, needs to be a key focus on the E-M5.3, simply put the A6400 and X-T30 have set the bar extremely high for what is competitive AF-C performance for sub-$1k mirrorless and these two bodies are the direct competitors to the E-M5 series. I'm not expecting Olympus to match the class-leading X-T30 (whose AF system arguably outperforms the E-M1X in some situations) but shouting distance would be nice.

6. I bet little changes on the EVF front. There's little need since the E-M5.2 already is best in class for EVF (compared to X-T30 and A6400). An OLED panel is a possibility, for lower power draw, but I'd expect same specs overall.

7. Please Oly, give us a new mid-range kit lens. The 12-50EZ underwhelmed in 2012, it's time for something new in the same basic range. How about a non-EZ weather-sealed 12-50 f3.5-4.5...

In related items, I think Oly is planning on riding the E-M10.3 downmarket to drive sales, before replacing it with a E-M10.4. The biggest challenge here is the low, low cost of an entry-level DSLR. It's hard for Oly to get something decent into the same cost bracket as a D3500 without decontenting more, and people just aren't willing to accept the same set of compromises in a mirrorless body as on a budget DSLR (think of the screaming if the E-M10.4 came with a fixed LCD like the D3500, and that's a major cost item).

Additionally, I suspect that Oly will follow Fuji in bringing the E-M1.3 down in launch cost a bit while bringing performance up. Fuji has quite successful in doing this with the X-T3 (which launched at a lower price than the X-T2), and right now they're basically setting the standard for sub-FF mirrorless. I think the E-M1X was far too late in development to learn from the flop of the X-H1, or react to the sudden explosion of ~$2k FF mirrorless bodies (which went from 1 to 4 systems in the last 12 months). The E-M1X made a lot of sense in the days before the FF mirrorless push, but it's a lot harder to justify now with the low-cost pressure from FF mirrorless.
 

ac12

Mu-43 All-Pro
Joined
Apr 24, 2018
Messages
1,745
Location
SF Bay Area, California, USA
It is a difficult balance, where Olympus cannot please everyone.

Re: BLN-1. There are still a LOT of EM1-mk1s out there, so there is still the need to keep both the EM1-mk1 and soon to be replaced EM5-mk2 supplied with batteries. Though aftermarket demand would be less than production demand.

Battery is a balance, larger size and capacity for longer run time, or smaller size and capacity for shorter run time.
They can decrease power consumption, but put in a faster processor and you likely increase power consumption.

Run time is a bigger issue for some than others.
Shorter run time = need to carry more spare batteries.

What concerns me about the battery capacity are the future lenses.
Right now Olympus only has Sync IS in two pro lenses.
But will they put sync IS in the consumer line lenses? Maybe, maybe not.
And what if I want to put a Sync IS lens on my EM5 or EM10?

The problem is, Sync IS draws significantly more power than just running IBIS. And that would be a problem for the small batteries.
Example: On my EM1-mk1, I get 4 hours continuous ON run time, with a lens with just IBIS. With the 12-100/4 with Sync IS on, I get about 2-1/2 hours. That is more than 1/3 reduction in run time ☹
Olympus Service told me that the reduction in run time for my EM1-mk1 is "acceptable," and the lens does not need servicing for drawing too much power.​
This battery run time reduction, would be a reason to NOT use a lens with Sync IS on a camera with a small battery. Or at least recognize and accept that you will HAVE TO carry spare batterIES (note the plural).
 

mawz

Mu-43 Regular
Joined
Mar 2, 2013
Messages
82
I expect the BLN-1 to remain available for a good long while. Removing it from the cameras is about simplifying the camera line logistics, not the accessories. One can still get batteries for almost all older DSLR & mirrorless cameras (the Fuji S5 Pro being the main exception, as Fuji foolishly chose to lock those out of using the far more common Nikon EN-EL3e battery that they rechipped for their bodies)

I don't expect to see Sync IS in any consumer lenses. I do expect to see it in more pro lenses, as it adds real value with the larger/heavier/longer lenses. But these are big/heavy lenses in general, the same ones you'd want to use with a grip for handling. If Oly includes BLH-1 compatibility in the notional HLD-10, that could work very well in this application.

Heck, if Oly is smart they'll to an HLD-10G and an HLD-10P, with the 10P and 6P being interchangeable. That way you could use BLN-1's via the HLD-6P (which is already shared between the current E-M5 models as it attaches to both the HLD-6G and HLD-8G) and BLS-50's and BLH-1's via the notional HLD-10P (which I see having a tray for each of those two battery types).
 

ac12

Mu-43 All-Pro
Joined
Apr 24, 2018
Messages
1,745
Location
SF Bay Area, California, USA
I might view Sync IS like PDAF.
Why is PDAF only in the EM1 cameras? People on this and similar EM5-mk3 threads have been screaming for PDAF on the mk3.
So it might be for Sync IS.
I am not familiar with the Panasonic line to make a comparison, but The GX85 has their version of Sync IS. And that is a sub $1k camera.
So I can see Olympus being pushed to put OIS in some of the consumer lenses, just to have Sync IS on the EM5 in a non-pro lens, to complete with Panasonic. Granted that will add to the cost of making the lens, and raise the selling price.

According to the Olympus site, the EM5-mk2 has Sync IS, when paired to an Olympus lens with OIS (only 2, so far). So the camera is just waiting for the lens.
The EM10 has 5-axis stabilization, but not Sync IS.

I see value in putting OIS in the current 75-300. Even with IBIS, a 300mm lens (a 12x lens), is a long lens to stabilize, and every extra bit of stabilization will help.
Maybe even with the next version of the 12-200.

Paradoxically, the slower consumer lenses would benefit more from Sync IS, because they are slower than the faster pro lenses.
 

swifty

Mu-43 Regular
Joined
Jan 30, 2013
Messages
116
Location
Singapore
Real Name
Dave
7. Please Oly, give us a new mid-range kit lens. The 12-50EZ underwhelmed in 2012, it's time for something new in the same basic range. How about a non-EZ weather-sealed 12-50 f3.5-4.5...
A sealed 12-50 f/4 IS (or similar) would be nice since Panasonic has a 12-60 f/2.8-4.
To differentiate they could make it smaller, include the semi-macro feature of the old 12-50 or go just a little wider eg. 11-50 f/4 IS.
That would make a nice alternative kit lens for all Olympus models.
 

mawz

Mu-43 Regular
Joined
Mar 2, 2013
Messages
82
A sealed 12-50 f/4 IS (or similar) would be nice since Panasonic has a 12-60 f/2.8-4.
To differentiate they could make it smaller, include the semi-macro feature of the old 12-50 or go just a little wider eg. 11-50 f/4 IS.
That would make a nice alternative kit lens for all Olympus models.
I actually want something comparable to the cheaper Panasonic 12-60, not the PL.12-60 (which is priced directly against the 12-40)

IE a real mid-range kit lens. Oly doesn't offer anything really competent between the 12-40/2.8 and the 14-42EZ (I've owned the 12-50 and aside from the excellent performance in Macro mode, it underwhelmed significantly, I actually liked the 14-42 more as it's smaller, cheaper and every bit as good optically)

Right now Oly brackets the 12-60 f2.8-4 with the 12-40/2.8 and the 12-100/4, they don't really need another high-end do-everything lens. Panasonic provides 2 good low/mid kits (their 14-42 and 12-32), a solid mid-range (12-60) and 2 high-end options (the PL12-60 and the 12-35X).

Oly needs something in the mid-range. I actually like the 12-50 range and the weather sealing is a must, I just want better optics (comparable to the old ZD14-54, which was similarly priced & positioned in the 4/3rds lineup and was what I actually replaced my 12-50 with on my E-M5.1) and maybe a bit of a speed boost (f3.5-4.5 would be great, I don't see a fixed aperture as a requirement at this pricepoint).
 

swifty

Mu-43 Regular
Joined
Jan 30, 2013
Messages
116
Location
Singapore
Real Name
Dave
I actually want something comparable to the cheaper Panasonic 12-60, not the PL.12-60 (which is priced directly against the 12-40)

IE a real mid-range kit lens. Oly doesn't offer anything really competent between the 12-40/2.8 and the 14-42EZ (I've owned the 12-50 and aside from the excellent performance in Macro mode, it underwhelmed significantly, I actually liked the 14-42 more as it's smaller, cheaper and every bit as good optically)

Right now Oly brackets the 12-60 f2.8-4 with the 12-40/2.8 and the 12-100/4, they don't really need another high-end do-everything lens. Panasonic provides 2 good low/mid kits (their 14-42 and 12-32), a solid mid-range (12-60) and 2 high-end options (the PL12-60 and the 12-35X).

Oly needs something in the mid-range. I actually like the 12-50 range and the weather sealing is a must, I just want better optics (comparable to the old ZD14-54, which was similarly priced & positioned in the 4/3rds lineup and was what I actually replaced my 12-50 with on my E-M5.1) and maybe a bit of a speed boost (f3.5-4.5 would be great, I don't see a fixed aperture as a requirement at this pricepoint).
Wouldn't a sealed 12-50 f/4 IS be somewhere between a 12-60 f/2.8-4 (or 12-40 f/2.8) and a 14-42EZ, especially without the Leica branding?
Maybe the 11mm is too much to ask but the semi-macro mode is just a carry over feature. So the improvements over the old 12-50 would really just be constant f/4 and IS for sync IS with Olympus bodies.
Maybe a bit improved optics too.
 

mawz

Mu-43 Regular
Joined
Mar 2, 2013
Messages
82
Wouldn't a sealed 12-50 f/4 IS be somewhere between a 12-60 f/2.8-4 (or 12-40 f/2.8) and a 14-42EZ, especially without the Leica branding?
Maybe the 11mm is too much to ask but the semi-macro mode is just a carry over feature. So the improvements over the old 12-50 would really just be constant f/4 and IS for sync IS with Olympus bodies.
Maybe a bit improved optics too.
If it really came in between the two in pricing, then yes. But I have little expectation that we'd see both fixed aperture and an upgrade of the 12-50's thoroughly mediocre optics at a reasonable price, and the optics are the real issue with the 12-50.

If Oly came out with a new 12-50 of the exact same specs as the current one, but actually good performance outside of Macro mode, I'd be all over it. The current 12-50 simply doesn't perform on par with comparable lenses from other manufacturers (and I'm thinking lenses like Nikon's 16-85VR or Panasonic's 12-60 f3.5-5.6, not class leaders like Fuji's 18-55 or Nikon's 16-80E)
 

ac12

Mu-43 All-Pro
Joined
Apr 24, 2018
Messages
1,745
Location
SF Bay Area, California, USA
I actually want something comparable to the cheaper Panasonic 12-60, not the PL.12-60 (which is priced directly against the 12-40)

IE a real mid-range kit lens. Oly doesn't offer anything really competent between the 12-40/2.8 and the 14-42EZ (I've owned the 12-50 and aside from the excellent performance in Macro mode, it underwhelmed significantly, I actually liked the 14-42 more as it's smaller, cheaper and every bit as good optically)

Right now Oly brackets the 12-60 f2.8-4 with the 12-40/2.8 and the 12-100/4, they don't really need another high-end do-everything lens. Panasonic provides 2 good low/mid kits (their 14-42 and 12-32), a solid mid-range (12-60) and 2 high-end options (the PL12-60 and the 12-35X).

Oly needs something in the mid-range. I actually like the 12-50 range and the weather sealing is a must, I just want better optics (comparable to the old ZD14-54, which was similarly priced & positioned in the 4/3rds lineup and was what I actually replaced my 12-50 with on my E-M5.1) and maybe a bit of a speed boost (f3.5-4.5 would be great, I don't see a fixed aperture as a requirement at this pricepoint).
I got the Panasonic-Lumix 12-60 as my GP lens, because Olympus did not have a comparable lens.
Turned out that the Panasonic lens has the best zoom ring of all my micro 4/3 lenses, light and easy to turn.
 

FrayAdjacent

Mu-43 Veteran
Joined
Dec 5, 2012
Messages
283
Location
Austin, TX
Real Name
M@
Olympus better not make this a milquetoast upgrade... I just watched a couple videos about the Sony RX100 VII, and holy crap, that's an amazing little point-and-shoot camera. The E-M5 MkIII has some really stiff competition, even from cameras like that Sony, at least when it comes to functionality like the badass autofocus tracking.

I'm prepared to be underwhelmed... but I'm still hopeful (almost like I was before Game of Thrones season 8!)
 

rezatravilla

Mu-43 All-Pro
Joined
Aug 7, 2013
Messages
1,022
Location
Indonesia
Real Name
Reza Travilla
@FrayAdjacent we all remember season 8 and how good that was.
Let’s hope mk3, ain’t no “s08”.
Season 8? the boy who always seat while everybody tried to take the Iron Throne, in the end is the winner. So.....that boy is Pentax maybe....i dunno, Pentax seems to be quite lately, not joining the mirrorless war.
 

mawz

Mu-43 Regular
Joined
Mar 2, 2013
Messages
82
Season 8? the boy who always seat while everybody tried to take the Iron Throne, in the end is the winner. So.....that boy is Pentax maybe....i dunno, Pentax seems to be quite lately, not joining the mirrorless war.
Pentax has managed to fail twice at Mirrorless already, three times if you count Ricoh's attempt alongside the K-01 and Q series.
 

agentlossing

Mu-43 Hall of Famer
Joined
Jun 26, 2013
Messages
4,199
Real Name
Andrew Lossing
Crossing my fingers. The MkIII has a lot of competition. Please please please Olympus, don't "mail it in" like the GoT writers did!
I'm with you there. I am ready for something with improvements over my GX85, and if Olympus really looks to stay "in the game" with something besides pro-level EM1X style stuff, they need to make something compelling here. If the rumor of more plastic in the build is true, then (despite really preferring metal) I am interesting in the prospect of a good price point.

No opinion on GoT, I've stayed mercifully away from the whole show.
 

FrayAdjacent

Mu-43 Veteran
Joined
Dec 5, 2012
Messages
283
Location
Austin, TX
Real Name
M@
No opinion on GoT, I've stayed mercifully away from the whole show.
Probably best, it was great, but ended up like the Titanic - not the successful movie, the unsuccessful boat. (those at the helm wanted to rush to the end and it crashed and sank)


I read a rumor earlier today about the body being probably more lightweight materials. I'm OK with that as long as performance and the feature set are good. Also the announcement/release may not be until late September or even early October. I hope it ends up being worth the wait! (otherwise there's the Sony A6400, the upcoming Canon M50 MkII, and plenty of competition)
 

Aristophanes

Mu-43 Top Veteran
Joined
Aug 9, 2017
Messages
637
Location
Dartmouth, Nova Scotia
I concur that the battery life with the 12-100 on my Pen F (same battery as the E-M1) is shorter than the battery life with the 12-100 on my E-M1 II. Luckily, my usage of the Pen F is not as demanding as using the E-M1 II, so not as noticeable.
The design of the 12-100 has a very large, long throw focussing element that certainly chews battery life along with the additional stabilization. It’s a power hungry lens, as a few videographers have similarly noted.

Olympus is likely not losing design sleep over battery backwards compatibility. They are likely losing sleep over overall mass and form of their cameras compared to EOS R and Nikon Zs, with price point, and especially with video performance (the Zs about to get firmware ProRes updates at 10-bits), but especially with the PDAF and AF-C game being upped, like extremely accurate eye-AF and tracking,

With the consumer end tanking, gone are the days when a manufacturer could “cripple” a model to create price points. So the great PDAF differentiator is done, as between the EM1 and EM5. Same for video and AF improvements. Video is especially quirky because is is the lower end market that is demanding some of the 4k spec minimum standards.

The nice thing for m43 is a good chunk of the mid-range video market is investing in the sensor format, like BlackMagic. The bad thing is that makes m43 in the world of a minimum video standard at any price point. We might see a surprise with the EM5.3 on this front.
 

pdk42

One of the "Eh?" team
Joined
Jan 11, 2013
Messages
6,557
Location
Leamington Spa, UK
The leaks seem to have dried up. If an Aug launch was likely (as some rumours have said), then I'd have expected the leaks to increase not decrease (think about the E-M1x - we had photos of reviewers with the camera weeks before the unveiling). I suspect it's at least Sept now. I wonder how many copies of the E-M5ii they are selling at the moment? I'm guessing that sales of what should be the bread-and-butter mid-range model have been stagnant for a year now, maybe longer. I'm amazed at how long the mk iii is taking to come to fruition.
 

Latest posts

Links on this page may be to our affiliates. Sales through affiliate links may benefit this site.
Mu-43 is a fan site and not associated with Olympus, Panasonic, or other manufacturers mentioned on this site.
Forum post reactions by Twemoji: https://github.com/twitter/twemoji
Copyright © 2009-2019 Amin Forums, LLC
Top Bottom