About Turn ? - FF back to Fuji and M43

L0n3Gr3yW0lf

Dad Pun Joke Master Over Nine Thousand Meme Lord
Joined
Jul 31, 2013
Messages
1,177
Location
UK
Real Name
Ovidiu
Hello Rob, I value your opinion greatly as you have so much experience trying and testing multiple systems. Right now I'm on the boat of staying with Olympus (I'm in the process of changing my lenses to Olympus 12-100mm f 4 Pro and Olympus 100-400mm f 5-6.3) or going with Fujifilm with the X-T4, 16-55mm f 2.8 and 100-400mm f 4.5-5.6 or (possibly) Sony a9 with Tamron 28-200mm f 2.8-5.6 and Sony 200-600mm f 5.6-6.3 (though this one is harder because of budget constraints, I may have to wait a few months to be able to afford the Sony lens).

Could you please help me with some information:
*How does the AF compare between X-T3/4 and E-M1X/1.2? As I have a big interest in wildlife (I know it's not the same as motorsports since it's more sporadic and erratic) I am looking for an AF that is more confident and solid, if possible.
*Have you tried the Fujifilm Pre-Capture and how it compares to Olympus Pro Capture, it's one of the biggest interest I have for getting the right moment with birds (which Sony doesn't have and I am having trouble convincing myself going for because of that), I know Fujifilm has a more limited buffer for Pre-Capture compare to Olympus but what about the performance of the camera when using it (Olympus seems to slow down in EVF refresh rate and performance Pro-Capture is active).
*I found that the high ISO IQ limit I'm finding most comfortable with is ISO 3.200 on my E-M1.3 (ISO 6.400 is doable but has a significant small detail penalty like fur and feather and gets quite desaturated with blending of colors especially in more shadowy areas), what is the comfortable max ISO that you have found on your Fujifilm X-T3/X-S10?
*My biggest worry with X-T4 (which is the only one I can really accept because I want the IBIS and I would love an EVF upgrade not a sidegrade from E-M1.3) is the front grip, it looks way too small to hold comfortable the XF 100-400mm f 4.5-5.6 comfortably for a whole day (for wildlife trips). How are you handling such a heavy lens? I can't find anywhere in the market a make-shift 3rd party grip that gives a proper grip to grab on to.

This is less of a question and more of a ponder, I am a RAW shooter because I want to maximize the IQ I can get out of M4/3 and it feels quite needed, to learn the limitations of the system (but that's up to an individual's needs) but if IQ from the X-Trans would be higher I could go from RAW to JPEG shooting? Though I would find it difficult to dial back on editing because I always force myself to do better than "before".

(I have looked into ALL the other systems and the only ones that fit my interests and needs are Olympus and Fujifilm. Canon (too expensive), Nikon (no native +200mm), Sony (no Pre-Buffer capabilities), Panasonic L (no native +200mm))
 

stevedo

Mu-43 Top Veteran
Joined
May 12, 2012
Messages
625
Location
UK
Real Name
Steve
Hello Rob, I value your opinion greatly as you have so much experience trying and testing multiple systems. Right now I'm on the boat of staying with Olympus (I'm in the process of changing my lenses to Olympus 12-100mm f 4 Pro and Olympus 100-400mm f 5-6.3) or going with Fujifilm with the X-T4, 16-55mm f 2.8 and 100-400mm f 4.5-5.6 or (possibly) Sony a9 with Tamron 28-200mm f 2.8-5.6 and Sony 200-600mm f 5.6-6.3 (though this one is harder because of budget constraints, I may have to wait a few months to be able to afford the Sony lens).

Could you please help me with some information:
*How does the AF compare between X-T3/4 and E-M1X/1.2? As I have a big interest in wildlife (I know it's not the same as motorsports since it's more sporadic and erratic) I am looking for an AF that is more confident and solid, if possible.
*Have you tried the Fujifilm Pre-Capture and how it compares to Olympus Pro Capture, it's one of the biggest interest I have for getting the right moment with birds (which Sony doesn't have and I am having trouble convincing myself going for because of that), I know Fujifilm has a more limited buffer for Pre-Capture compare to Olympus but what about the performance of the camera when using it (Olympus seems to slow down in EVF refresh rate and performance Pro-Capture is active).
*I found that the high ISO IQ limit I'm finding most comfortable with is ISO 3.200 on my E-M1.3 (ISO 6.400 is doable but has a significant small detail penalty like fur and feather and gets quite desaturated with blending of colors especially in more shadowy areas), what is the comfortable max ISO that you have found on your Fujifilm X-T3/X-S10?
*My biggest worry with X-T4 (which is the only one I can really accept because I want the IBIS and I would love an EVF upgrade not a sidegrade from E-M1.3) is the front grip, it looks way too small to hold comfortable the XF 100-400mm f 4.5-5.6 comfortably for a whole day (for wildlife trips). How are you handling such a heavy lens? I can't find anywhere in the market a make-shift 3rd party grip that gives a proper grip to grab on to.

This is less of a question and more of a ponder, I am a RAW shooter because I want to maximize the IQ I can get out of M4/3 and it feels quite needed, to learn the limitations of the system (but that's up to an individual's needs) but if IQ from the X-Trans would be higher I could go from RAW to JPEG shooting? Though I would find it difficult to dial back on editing because I always force myself to do better than "before".

(I have looked into ALL the other systems and the only ones that fit my interests and needs are Olympus and Fujifilm. Canon (too expensive), Nikon (no native +200mm), Sony (no Pre-Buffer capabilities), Panasonic L (no native +200mm))

Why not try something like DxO DeepPRIME with your Olympus RAW files (assuming you haven't already). You could easily shoot at ISO6400 all day long. If you're happy with Olympus at ISO 3200 then Olympus plus DeepPRIME at 6400 will be no problem at all and should close any gap to Fuji when it comes to perceived IQ. Note that DeepPRIME does not work on Fuji files.

I know I'm not Rob and I have no direct experience with Fuji cameras but I do think that our Olympus cameras have the most complete feature set of any system. Olympus AF, although not class leading, is also pretty good. With software like DxO DeepPRIME to reduce noise and upsizing tools such as GigaPixel AI I see no real need to change systems for the foreseeable future unless the setup you currently have really does not enable you to get the initial shot.
 

Robstar1963

Mad on Motorsports
Joined
Jun 10, 2011
Messages
3,466
Location
Isle of Wight England UK
Real Name
Rob
@L0n3Gr3yW0lf
At work on lunch so can only address some of your points right now
Have just bought a Smallrig bracket for the XT4 - huge improvement ref grip with bigger lenses
I only have the 50-140f2.8 at the moment and don’t have the 100-400 currently but the grip is that much better with the Smallrig that I would be confident using with the 100-400
Its not a big grip and extends the base for somewhere to put your little finger and has a sculpted front grip
Has a key included for the tripod screw - the key being retained magnetically to the base of the grip so always to hand - good design
Has a removable end plate which if fitted will restrict the articulated screen - either remove it or grip can be bought slightly cheaper without the end plate
Good access to the battery which is still easy to change with the grip fitted
The battery grip for the Xt4 is larger (deeper) than the one for the XT3 and for me it has grown too big making the overall package with the grip too tall - this being due to the newer bigger 235 batteries being placed in the grip vertically on their side
Luckily the battery capacity of the XT4 is much better than the XT3 so a battery grip is not required - it was almost a necessity for a day shooting with the XT3 which I think may have had the batteries horizontally ?? in the grip which made it shorter and a better size as a combined package

edit - ive already mentioned AF between XT3 and EM1X in one of my posts above - very basic notes but can’t provide a better analysis and have not yet used the XT4
 

fortwodriver

Mu-43 All-Pro
Joined
Nov 15, 2013
Messages
1,231
Location
Toronto, Ontario, Canada
Real Name
Frank
I keep trying Fuji cameras. A friend of mine is a self-proclaimed Fuji evangelist. Yet, every time, I feel like the AF is not as sure-footed as my E-M1mkiii. It feels different - less assured than even my old E-M1.
 

Robstar1963

Mad on Motorsports
Joined
Jun 10, 2011
Messages
3,466
Location
Isle of Wight England UK
Real Name
Rob
I keep trying Fuji cameras. A friend of mine is a self-proclaimed Fuji evangelist. Yet, every time, I feel like the AF is not as sure-footed as my E-M1mkiii. It feels different - less assured than even my old E-M1.

Hi @fortwodriver
Thats a little bit of a vague comment
what Fuji cameras have you actually tried / used ?
 
Last edited:

L0n3Gr3yW0lf

Dad Pun Joke Master Over Nine Thousand Meme Lord
Joined
Jul 31, 2013
Messages
1,177
Location
UK
Real Name
Ovidiu
Why not try something like DxO DeepPRIME with your Olympus RAW files (assuming you haven't already). You could easily shoot at ISO6400 all day long. If you're happy with Olympus at ISO 3200 then Olympus plus DeepPRIME at 6400 will be no problem at all and should close any gap to Fuji when it comes to perceived IQ. Note that DeepPRIME does not work on Fuji files.

I know I'm not Rob and I have no direct experience with Fuji cameras but I do think that our Olympus cameras have the most complete feature set of any system. Olympus AF, although not class leading, is also pretty good. With software like DxO DeepPRIME to reduce noise and upsizing tools such as GigaPixel AI I see no real need to change systems for the foreseeable future unless the setup you currently have really does not enable you to get the initial shot.
Thanks, I have been using Topaz DeNoise AI since October and I do have DxO but I haven't tried it beyond a few tests (mostly because learning a new UI is taking me more time than I thought). Where I get quite frustrated is once I hit ISO 6.400 the RAW files become very rigid for editing, shadows can't be hosted without getting extreme blotchiness and noise, and turning down highlights brings the entire exposure down including the shadows, on normal .ORF files and on HHHR/HR files (which should have more latitude than normal files). I haven't done deep tests on DeepPrime (sorry I just couldn't help myself :p) but on Topaz DeNoise AI in Low Light, the setting seems to smear smooth texture which doesn't help with improving the look of the image (using the other settings it works just fine 99% of the time).

@L0n3Gr3yW0lf
At work on lunch so can only address some of your points right now
Have just bought a Smallrig bracket for the XT4 - huge improvement ref grip with bigger lenses
I only have the 50-140f2.8 at the moment and don’t have the 100-400 currently but the grip is that much better with the Smallrig that I would be confident using with the 100-400
Its not a big grip and extends the base for somewhere to put your little finger and has a sculpted front grip
Has a key included for the tripod screw - the key being retained magnetically to the base of the grip so always to hand - good design
Has a removable end plate which if fitted will restrict the articulated screen - either remove it or grip can be bought slightly cheaper without the end plate
Good access to the battery which is still easy to change with the grip fitted
The battery grip for the Xt4 is larger (deeper) than the one for the XT3 and for me it has grown too big making the overall package with the grip too tall - this being due to the newer bigger 235 batteries being placed in the grip vertically on their side
Luckily the battery capacity of the XT4 is much better than the XT3 so a battery grip is not required - it was almost a necessity for a day shooting with the XT3 which I think may have had the batteries horizontally ?? in the grip which made it shorter and a better size as a combined package

edit - ive already mentioned AF between XT3 and EM1X in one of my posts above - very basic notes but can’t provide a better analysis and have not yet used the XT4
Thank you, it's good to know there are options to improving the grip. (When I had the Olympus Zuiko Digital ED 50-200mm f 2.8-3.5 and used it on the Olympus OM-D E-M1 Mark I the 1.1 KGs, with the Olympus MMF-3, was quite comfortable and easy to hold on given the size of the grip).
I do use an L bracket on the Olympus OM-D E-M1 Mark III to get the extra verticle space for my pinky, which makes the camera so much more secure and comfortable to use, though I use only the bottom part since I don't even own a tripod (anymore, had only one and broke it a week ago) and I wouldn't bother with the side piece anyways.
I am happy to hear that the Fujifilm X-T4 gets a bigger battery :)
 

fortwodriver

Mu-43 All-Pro
Joined
Nov 15, 2013
Messages
1,231
Location
Toronto, Ontario, Canada
Real Name
Frank
Hi @fortwodriver
Thats a little bit of a vague comment
what Fuji cameras have you actually tried / used ?

So far the XT4, XS10, XT100, XE4, XA7, XT200, X100V. The XT4 was the best of them all but still felt sluggish. I couldn't find a single reason to want one over my Olympus gear. My old Canon 20d, with it's relatively simple 9 focus points seem to be more sure-footed than the XS10, which surprised me.

AF tracking seemed really dodgy to me, too.

Even with all of the film simulation options, I come from film and remember most of the colour emulsions pretty well, but the emulations seem vague and more of a marketing gimmick than a useful tool.

Playing around with them, though made me curious - the GFX line are essentially medium format cameras with higher megapixels and moving way more data around in real-time. The APS-C cameras should have better AF, much better tracking, and be more responsive, but they don't and they aren't.
 
Joined
Jun 23, 2017
Messages
1,802
I keep trying Fuji cameras. A friend of mine is a self-proclaimed Fuji evangelist. Yet, every time, I feel like the AF is not as sure-footed as my E-M1mkiii. It feels different - less assured than even my old E-M1.
I've had a parallel experience, but with Fujifilm vs Panasonic: I love the Fuji film simulations, JPEGs and image quality, but prefer the Panasonic package in every other way. Not to mention I'm already invested, with many mu43 lenses (3 zooms, 5 primes). At this point in my experimentation, I think the only Fuji body I could "move up" to would be the X-S10 to benefit from IBIS, size and ergonomics.

@Robstar1963 what decided you to sell the X-S10, was it primarily the preference for classic Fuji control dials? Did it otherwise do what you wanted it to, or as well as your mu43 gear? I've seen your amazing motorsport work, and I like to do a little of that also, but I tinker with many genres of photography. I know that many argue that there isn't much between sensor sizes, but to my eye the Fuji files are better.
 
Last edited:

Latest posts

Links on this page may be to our affiliates. Sales through affiliate links may benefit this site.
Mu-43 is a fan site and not associated with Olympus, Panasonic, or other manufacturers mentioned on this site.
Forum post reactions by Twemoji: https://github.com/twitter/twemoji
Forum GIFs powered by GIPHY: https://giphy.com/
Copyright © Amin Forums, LLC
Top Bottom