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A question to those of you with calibrated displays (help needed)

Discussion in 'Image Processing' started by ijm5012, May 7, 2016.

  1. ijm5012

    ijm5012 Mu-43 Hall of Famer

    Oct 2, 2013
    Pittsburgh, PA
    Ian
    I've noticed something odd recently about how my photos look different when displayed on my MBP retina screen, and my iPhone 5 screen, and I'm hoping I can get some input from those who have calibrated displays.

    My typical work flow is to make the majority of my edits in LR6, before running the image through Exposure X, which I find has some really great film emulations and color toning presets. All of the editing is done on my MBP with a retina display that has never had an external calibration done (I have gone through the internal adjustment for gamma though).

    Anyway, the "issue" I'm having is that depending on where I view the images and on what device I view them on, they look pretty different. Here's what I'm seeing:
    • When edited on my computer, the images look fine.
    • When uploaded to Facebook and viewed on my MBP, the images look the same as they did when I was editing them.
    • When uploaded to Flickr and viewed on my MBP, the images look the same as they did when I was editing them.
    • When viewing the images on this site linked from my Flickr, the images look the same as they did when I was editing them.
    So, when viewing them on my MBP, they all look the same, regardless of the source (this is expected). But, below is what I get when viewing them on my iPhone 5:
    • When viewed on Facebook, they look the same as what I saw on my computer
    • When viewed on Flickr, they images have a "greener" tinge to them, very different from what I see when viewing the same images on Flickr from my computer.
    • When viewed on this site linked from my Flickr, the images have a "greener" tinge to them, very different form what I see when viewing the same images on this site from my computer.

    I'm curious as to what those are seeing who viewing the images from a calibrated monitor. I've included a couple pictures below, and I'd appreciate your feedback.
    • The first image of the car, how do the reds look? Do they still look like a fairly vibrant red, or do they look very dark and somewhat desaturated?
    • The second image of the Flamingo, is the color a fairly vibrant pinkish-orange, or is it more orange with almost no pink in it, and somewhat desaturated?
    • The last image of the girl, does her face have a pinkish tinge to it, or a greenish tinge to it?

    I greatly appreciate you input, because I'm a bit confused as to why I'm seeing the color differences between my MBP and iPhone when viewing the same image from different sources (Facebook, Flickr, etc.).


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  2. Tenpenny

    Tenpenny Mu-43 Regular

    172
    Mar 16, 2015
    Nampa, Idaho
    Brent Watkins
    I've also noticed differences between devices. Not a specific color tint but, over saturation. Images look normal on my monitor then way overblown on my tablet and phone (which, I admit, I tend to go overboard with sliders anyway) I tracked my issue down to this: In LR/PS I was saving the file with the Adobe rgb gamut. My monitor only displays sRGB. My tablet and phone display the full Adobe RGB color gamut. The fix for me was to save my images in sRGB. It's a recent discovery for me, and I may be wrong. The added colorspace of the Adobe RGB is wonderful, especially for printing however, the lack of control on my part due to the limitations of my monitor just weren't worth the added hassle, so now I just work in sRGB.

    I don't know if this is what you are experiencing or not.

    **EDIT** Just looked at the exif info on flickr. Looks like you are already in srgb soooo... your issue doesn't appear to be my issue. bummer
     
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  3. Turbofrog

    Turbofrog Mu-43 Hall of Famer

    Mar 21, 2014
    Without knowing exactly what the original images looked like, but viewing them on a factory-calibrated Dell U2414H:

    1) Somewhat dark reds, wouldn't call them really desaturated per se. The rear wheel in particular is quite vibrant and saturated, but the paint on the car itself is definitely more to the duller, darker orange-y-red side of the spectrum.
    2) Very little pink, almost entirely orange. The light pink tone that I more commonly associate with flamingos is visible in the out-of-focus area on left, but the colour on the flamingo in the foreground looks more like an orange poppy flower.
    3) The cheeks and chin are pinky, but some of the lighter flatter tones are maybe a bit skewed to the yellowy side of the spectrum, but looks pretty natural. Don't really notice a green tinge, except slightly in the shadows on her neck.

    Colour is really hard. I'm always a little bemused when people talk about how much they love Olympus, Fuji, Canon [insert manufacturer here] colours, when it has so much more to do with the output medium than the input in the first place. At this point I just read people saying they love those colours as them loving highly saturated images...
     
    Last edited: May 7, 2016
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  4. WendyK

    WendyK Super Moderator

    Feb 28, 2014
    Northern Virginia
    Wendy
    My results on a ColorMunki-calibrated iMac seem identical to Turbofrog's.
     
  5. dwig

    dwig Mu-43 Top Veteran

    621
    Jun 26, 2010
    Key West FL
    When posting images on the likes of Facebook, Flickr, and others of that ilk you mush assume that they will be stripping you image and very possibly reprocessing it in some what (altering compression, ...). You also must assume that the viewing app (browser, dedicated app, ...) doesn't support embedded profiles and that it doesn't support using its own copy of the profile that might be tagged in the image. The end result of this is that you MUST ALWAYS convert you images to sRGB when exporting, preferably embedding the profile.

    An image tagged as "Adobe RGB (1998)", the most common wider gamut colorspace, will not look right when the viewing app displays it using sRGB or using the device's display colorspace. Good viewing apps (browsers, ...) these day fall back to sRGB when conflicts occur. Conflicts occur when:
    • an image doesn't define its colorspace
    • an image defines a color space that the viewer can't support
    The first often occurs with overly simplistic site upload services that reprocess the image and strip all metadata including the colorspace spec and the profile if present. The second occurs when the site's upload service has stripped the embedded profile, or when the spec'd profile wasn't embedded in the first place, and the viewing app can't provide the spec'd profile.

    Browsers and other viewing apps created for "full" OSs (e.g. Windows, Linux, MacOSX) generally support embedded profiles and sometimes also support using the spec'd profile that is installed at the system level. Apps build for "lightweight, limited resource, and restricted" OSs (e.g. iOS, Android) very frequently don't support the spec'd colorspace, whether the profile is embedded or not. They force the image into either sRGB or the devices native display colorspace. This makes using sRGB the only hope for cross device uniformity.
     
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  6. Replytoken

    Replytoken Mu-43 Hall of Famer

    May 7, 2012
    Puget Sound
    Ken
    What phone are you using that has a display that outputs full Adobe RGB?

    --Ken
     
  7. AlanU

    AlanU Mu-43 Veteran

    484
    May 2, 2012
    Do you own a TN panel? or IPS? do you use xrite passport? spyder calibrator? colourmunki?
     
  8. Tenpenny

    Tenpenny Mu-43 Regular

    172
    Mar 16, 2015
    Nampa, Idaho
    Brent Watkins
    Samsung S7 for the phone. And my wife's tablet is a samsung as well (newer generation, can't keep up with the naming convention)
     
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  9. Replytoken

    Replytoken Mu-43 Hall of Famer

    May 7, 2012
    Puget Sound
    Ken
    Didn't realize that phone display technology was advancing that quickly.

    Thanks,

    --Ken
     
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  10. Tenpenny

    Tenpenny Mu-43 Regular

    172
    Mar 16, 2015
    Nampa, Idaho
    Brent Watkins
    Neither did I until recently. Mobile tech is moving at a crazy fast pace.
     
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  11. MaK543

    MaK543 Mu-43 Regular

    139
    May 1, 2012
    MD USA
    The default color for Samsung phones is over saturated. The 'basic' display color is more in line with a calibrated monitor.
     
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  12. ijm5012

    ijm5012 Mu-43 Hall of Famer

    Oct 2, 2013
    Pittsburgh, PA
    Ian
    No, which is why I was asking those who have a calibrated monitor to take a look at the pics and comment about the color.

    I was looking at spyder5 pro, but in reading the reviews a lot of people say it's really not that great (giving inconsistent calibrations on the same monitor, different calibrations across different monitors that are the same model, etc.). I'd like to get something to calibrate the the display with, not only for my rMBP but also because I'm looking at picking up an external IPS monitor that's larger, and want to be sure that what I'm seeing is accurate.
     
  13. Replytoken

    Replytoken Mu-43 Hall of Famer

    May 7, 2012
    Puget Sound
    Ken
    Were the negative reviews from reasonable sources? Colordata has been in this business for enough time that a mature product should function reasonably well in normal conditions. Granted, anything is possible, but im not sure I would write them off just yet.

    --Ken
     
  14. tkbslc

    tkbslc Mu-43 Hall of Famer

    To me it looks like you are working in AdobeRGB (which is the adobe default) and the issues arise when moving to browsers that are not color managed and they are displaying it as the standard sRGB.

    I would personally not work in AdobeRGB unless your primary output is to paper. If your primary output is to web and other computing devices, you can bet that the majority of them will be sRGB only, so you might as well work in that color space from the start. Even if you tag your images, half the viewers may not have color management in order to read them. You can convert color spaces when exporting, but then you'll end up with some odd color shifts you weren't expecting. (Honestly that might already be what is happening here)

    As for your images, on a non-calibrated TN panel $180 Chromebook (lowest common denominator probably) The car looks pretty good, with maybe more maroon instead of Red. The flamingo looks Copper-Orange. The woman has the skin color of a corpse, really. She is extremely pale with a purplish tinge to it.

    You can calibrate your monitor, but Apple does a "close enough" calibration from the factory for all-in-one devices like iMac and MacBooks. I don't think a slight calibration difference would describe differences like this.
     
    Last edited: May 7, 2016
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  15. tkbslc

    tkbslc Mu-43 Hall of Famer

    I guess I should have read all the replies before answering myself.

    If they are tagged sRGB, then perhaps he is working in AdobeRGB but the export is converting to sRGB. Converting to sRGB has to crunch or shift some of the colors vs Adobe. No way around it.

    Other issues can occur if working on a wide gamut monitor and you adjust colors outside the color limits of more limited gamut displays. If you have a 100% sRGB display and adjust reds to near 99% level, then on my cheapo monitor with only 80% sRGB, red gets clipped for me.
     
  16. budeny

    budeny Mu-43 All-Pro

    Mar 4, 2014
    Boulder, CO
    @ijm5012@ijm5012 - looks like photos in first message have ProPhoto color profile. Generally, for max comparability over the Internet, you should stick to sRGB
     
  17. mattia

    mattia Mu-43 Hall of Famer

    May 3, 2012
    The Netherlands
    The iPhones screen is also a bit punchier than my MacBook. But no weird color shifts. inwould check your entire color workflow first - just because it's tagged as sRGB doesn't mean it's been converted correctly to the sRGB profile. In my experience Facebook messes up the color when uploading via my computer; at last it did last year. Maybe they've fixed it by now, don't upload to Facebook much.

    What I notice on my SO's AMOLED Samsung devices is that they tend towards a slightly odd hue (greenish).
     
  18. Replytoken

    Replytoken Mu-43 Hall of Famer

    May 7, 2012
    Puget Sound
    Ken
    I have looked at the images on two calibrated monitors and an iPad2. The iPad2 is not quite as bright, but then again I do not have it, or my monitors' brightness set to "11". It may be a combination of hardware and software that you might never solve. I had a similar issue a few years ago, and I finally just decided that I was mostly concerned about a high level of accuracy when printing. I cannot control how web hosts like Flickr compress images, and I certainly cannot control what software people use or how their hardware is calibrated, or not as is usually the case. If you have LR, you could see what colors are out of gamut. I usually use this as a guide when working with images that "push the envelope".

    Good luck,

    --Ken
     
  19. Carbonman

    Carbonman Mu-43 All-Pro

    Jul 10, 2014
    Vancouver BC
    Graham
    [QUOTE="Turbofrog, post: 893218, member: 21027"Colour is really hard. I'm always a little bemused when people talk about how much they love Olympus, Fuji, Canon [insert manufacturer here] colours, when it has so much more to do with the output medium than the input in the first place. At this point I just read people saying they love those colours as them loving highly saturated images...[/QUOTE]
    In the film days, lots of people loved Kodachrome color, highly saturated and contrasty. Others loved the Fuji blues and greens. These days it's a crap shoot until you buy and calibrate a good monitor, then print your work as the acid test.
    I'm still trying to wrap my head around the "out of gamut" warnings I get when taking my stuff in for printing sometimes .
     
  20. AlanU

    AlanU Mu-43 Veteran

    484
    May 2, 2012
    I've been using my spyder elite4 for years now. My photos from my 27" Ultrasharp Dell monitor (IPS) look identical to my Pro lab that uses a Noritsu wet lab. My prints are virtually wysiwyg however magenta isn't one of the easy colours to match apparently.

    My prints brightness is fine tuned to my labs so my prints always come out exactly as I want them to look.

    On my Iphone 6+ all of your images look totally off and lots all saturation and vibrance. The woman looks ghastly green. The wheels on the car lost all vibrance.

    Does this happen to your FB photos???? My photos from my IPS look virtually identical to my FB page on my computer as well as my iphone. I dont ever recall any of my flickr photos to be off in colour.