A Question For All You Troubleshooters Out There...

Discussion in 'Other Genres' started by ijm5012, Mar 20, 2017.

  1. ijm5012

    ijm5012 Mu-43 Hall of Famer

    Oct 2, 2013
    Pittsburgh, PA
    Ian
    OK, so I've got one for you: Why is my 12-60 SWD behaving like this?

    When I set up a shot and check the histogram, everything looks fine. However, when I take the image, it's significantly darker than what was reflected in Live View. I checked to see if Live View Boost was on, and it is not (rear LCD should reflect the actual exposure). I checked this on my E-M1 II as well as my E-M5 II, and it behaves the same way (see the YouTube video below). I also tested it against the Olympus 12/2 prime, and it does not exhibit this behavior (exposure reflects the actual histogram in Live View).

    I'm at a loss for what could be causing this, so I'd be curious to hear from others what they think could be the issue. I've attached two images below, one on the E-M1 II shot with the 12/2, and then one shot immediately after with the 12-60 SWD. Both had the exact same settings, yet the 12-60 SWD shot is extremely dark. Exif info is:
    • 12mm
    • ISO 200
    • f/5.6
    • 1/13s

    I've also included a Youtube video below showing some video of it happening in the field (uploading to YouTube now, give it a half hour or so and then it'll be live).

    Let me know what you think could be causing this, I'm curious to find out!

    E-M1 II - Standard.
    E-M1 II - SWD.
     
    Last edited: Mar 20, 2017
  2. barry13

    barry13 Super Moderator; Photon Wrangler Subscribing Member

    Mar 7, 2014
    Southern California
    Barry
    Hi, my only guess is maybe the aperture is broken?

    What happens wide open?
     
  3. ijm5012

    ijm5012 Mu-43 Hall of Famer

    Oct 2, 2013
    Pittsburgh, PA
    Ian
    Tested that, same thing happens. Actual exposure is darker than what's shown in Live View. Tested wide open and stopped down, both a full wide (12mm) as well as zoomed in. I checked to see if the aperture blades do stop down when taking the image, and they do so I don't believe that the aperture blades are stuck.
     
  4. SVQuant

    SVQuant Mu-43 All-Pro Subscribing Member

    Sep 20, 2015
    SF Bay Area, California, USA
    Sameer
    Could it be your MMF-3? Can you test another adapter? Or test your 50-200 to see if it shows the same behavior?
     
  5. ijm5012

    ijm5012 Mu-43 Hall of Famer

    Oct 2, 2013
    Pittsburgh, PA
    Ian
    Good thought Sameer. Just tested it with my 50-200 SWD on its own MMF-3 as well as the MMF-3 I had with the 12-60 SWD, and the 50-200 works fine on both (exposes properly). The 12-60 SWD behaves the same way on either MMF-3 adapter, so it's definitely not the adapter, but is the lens.

    Now, just to figure out what's wrong with it...
     
  6. kevinparis

    kevinparis Cantankerous Scotsman Subscribing Member

    Feb 12, 2010
    Gent, Belgium
    Just did a quick test with the 12-60 on my E-M1 mk2 with MA 1 lumix adaptor and live boost off.. I can replicate a dark image despite the LCD showing an apparently correct image if I am more than 3 stops underexposed.

    K
     
    Last edited: Mar 20, 2017
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  7. SVQuant

    SVQuant Mu-43 All-Pro Subscribing Member

    Sep 20, 2015
    SF Bay Area, California, USA
    Sameer
  8. kevinparis

    kevinparis Cantankerous Scotsman Subscribing Member

    Feb 12, 2010
    Gent, Belgium
    repeated test with 17mm... same issue.. live boost off and once you are below -3.0 the screen does not show you what you will get
     
  9. SVQuant

    SVQuant Mu-43 All-Pro Subscribing Member

    Sep 20, 2015
    SF Bay Area, California, USA
    Sameer
    Kevin, I think that is true for all lens on Olympus cameras once you are more than 3 stops underexposed. If I understand correctly, Ian is having his issue when the image should be properly exposed.
     
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  10. ijm5012

    ijm5012 Mu-43 Hall of Famer

    Oct 2, 2013
    Pittsburgh, PA
    Ian
    Check the bottom of the OP, you can see the video I made (sorry for the shit audio, it was shot on an iPhone with freezing cold hands so I was more concerned about that than anything else).

    The scene is not being underexposed. It does in both M as well as A & S modes. See the video to see what I mean.
     
  11. ijm5012

    ijm5012 Mu-43 Hall of Famer

    Oct 2, 2013
    Pittsburgh, PA
    Ian
  12. kevinparis

    kevinparis Cantankerous Scotsman Subscribing Member

    Feb 12, 2010
    Gent, Belgium
    hmm does seem odd.. forgive me for addressing the dumb options first

    K
     
  13. kevinparis

    kevinparis Cantankerous Scotsman Subscribing Member

    Feb 12, 2010
    Gent, Belgium
    Looking at the length of the replacement flex cable, that looks like a pretty major lens teardown!!

    K
     
  14. ijm5012

    ijm5012 Mu-43 Hall of Famer

    Oct 2, 2013
    Pittsburgh, PA
    Ian
    I've emailed Olympus to see what the flat-rate repair cost would be for the lens, so I hope to hear back from them in a day or two.

    I'm in an interesting situation, because I was considering selling the lens in the coming months and getting a 12-40 PRO instead. As much as I love this lens (the manual focusing is such joy on this lens), it would be nice to get a lens that work with AF on my E-M5 II, as well as ProCapture on my E-M1 II (damn you Olympus!).

    Checking eBay, lenses seem to sell for $300. After factoring in PayPal, eBay, and shipping fees, it'd leave me with ~$250. Now, if the Olympus repair quote comes in at say, $200, I'd be stupid to pay that, because I'd have to pay for shipping out (let's say $15), and after getting the lens back and selling it, I'd be making under $50 (DEFINITELY not worth my time & effort). Honestly, the repair quote would need to come in at somewhere between $100-150 for it to be feasible for me to send it off to them for repair, and that's just not going to happen.

    So, my other option is tear the lens down and replace the ribbon cable myself. Sure, there's the risk of ruining the lens, but I'm basically not going to get any money if I send it back to Olympus and then turn around and resell it, whereas I might be able to fix the lens myself and then sell it for full price (assuming the lens still checks out optically once it's put back together.

    I suppose I could sell the lens as-is and label it for parts/not working, but I really don't think I'd be able to get much for it in that condition anyways.
     
  15. SVQuant

    SVQuant Mu-43 All-Pro Subscribing Member

    Sep 20, 2015
    SF Bay Area, California, USA
    Sameer
    Trade it in on the Olympus trade-in rebate program? B&H will probably give you $150 for the lens and then you get the $200 off. Is the 12-40 part of the program?
     
  16. ijm5012

    ijm5012 Mu-43 Hall of Famer

    Oct 2, 2013
    Pittsburgh, PA
    Ian
    Sadly, it is not. The only eligible lenses are the 12-100 PRO ($1100 after), 25 PRO ($1000 after) or 300 PRO ($2300 after).

    I had thought about the 12-100 before, because I don't mind the size and weight really. The 12-40 is nice for its smaller size and lighter weight though, and constant 2.8 aperture (vs. f/4 on the 12-100). But, this may be the a valid option and shift my buying strategy. We'll see.

    I'd still be interested in finding a tear down manual of the lens though and having a go at replacing the ribbon cable.
     
  17. Speedliner

    Speedliner Mu-43 Hall of Famer Subscribing Member

    Mar 2, 2015
    Southern NJ, USA
    Rob
    If you're going to trash the lens then go ahead and attempt the repair. Success or not you might have fun. I've only torn down old manual lenses, but what the heck.

    Before you do that though, check a local shop. There is one near me that will repair an af lens for half the OEM cost. Since you're out of warranty, nothing lost.

    I have the 12-40 Pro. It's a fine lens, but the images from the 12-100 look even better to me (from posts, I don't own it) if you can live without the stop...and money :)
     
  18. ijm5012

    ijm5012 Mu-43 Hall of Famer

    Oct 2, 2013
    Pittsburgh, PA
    Ian
    Meh, I could swing the money for it. I really don't mind the size & weight of the lens either, since it's basically the same size & weight as the 12-60 SWD with the MMF-3 attached.

    I could trade the lens in to B&H for the $200 promo, sell the MMF-3 and get $100, which would basically bring my total cost down to $1,000 for the lens, which isn't too bad.

    The thing is, I was considering picking up the 12-40 and 40-150, especially the later to use with ProCap on my E-M1 II. However, if I get the 12-100 for $1000, I really can't justify spending another $1000 on a used 40-150 just for the extra 50mm of reach, or an extra $1250 if you include the cost of a used lens + MMF-3.

    The 12-100 / 100-400 would make for a nice outdoor combo, but it's somewhat slow at f/4-6.3 across the range. Hmm, decisions decisions...
     
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  19. barry13

    barry13 Super Moderator; Photon Wrangler Subscribing Member

    Mar 7, 2014
    Southern California
    Barry
    $165
    PC handles all USA repairs for Oly, and afaik Oly doesn't sell parts to anyone else in the US.
    Precision Camera - Digital Camera Repair, Video Camera Repair

    Since it's out of warranty, there's probably no benefit from going through Oly; I've tried both ways and the communication is slow for both (PC is the bottleneck).
     
  20. ijm5012

    ijm5012 Mu-43 Hall of Famer

    Oct 2, 2013
    Pittsburgh, PA
    Ian
    Alright, so if the lens sells for $300 on eBay in good working condition, I'd net about $245 after all the fees. Now, out of that $245 I'd net from selling the lens, I'd have to deduct the cost of fixing the lens ($165) plus the cost of shipping it (let's say $15), for a total cost of $180 to have the lens repaired and sent back to me. Deduct that from the net selling price, and I'd make $65 on the whole transaction.

    That's an awful lot of work and time spent just to make $65, compared to sending it off as a trade-in item for a new Olympus lens, and getting $200 off (plus the $100 I'd net from selling the MMF-3). The more I think about it, the less it makes sense to have the lens repaired.

    Other than this issue, the lens is in fantastic shape. I have all the caps, hood, lens pouch, and box. Is anybody interested in purchasing it for $50, knowing that it needs a $165 repair? You'd get a killer lens for a good price!
     
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