A horrible thought

Discussion in 'Open Discussion' started by wreckless, Oct 26, 2012.

  1. wreckless

    wreckless Mu-43 Regular

    102
    Jan 15, 2011
    Michigan
    Mike
    I've been going mad the last few weeks trying to decide whether I want to stick with :43: and pick up a G5 during the holiday sales or if I should sell all my gear (I estimate I could get $600 for the lot) and pick up a D5100... HELP!
     
  2. WT21

    WT21 Mu-43 Hall of Famer

    Feb 19, 2010
    Boston
    Why do you want to switch? What is missing? What do you shoot?
     
  3. M4/3

    M4/3 Mu-43 Top Veteran

    713
    Sep 24, 2011
    Best holiday prices last year were during Black Friday week and the period between Thanksgiving and Xmas
     
  4. meyerweb

    meyerweb Mu-43 Hall of Famer

    Sep 5, 2011
    In what way do you think your current gear is limiting you? Do those limitations really affect the quality of your images? (I'm not talking about "IQ", I'm talking about photographic composition, lighting, etc.) Will a G5 address that? Will a D5100?

    If you can rationally say that a D5100 will improve your images, and a G5 won'tm than maybe switching makes sense. But ask yourself if the limitation is important enough, and the improvement large enough, to justify the cost in dollars, size and weight of purchasing newer, larger and heavier gear.

    In all honesty, unless you shoot a lot of action (sports, BIF, etc.), I can't image the D5100 will give you better photographs than your OM-D or a G5.
     
  5. Mr.Kilawin

    Mr.Kilawin Mu-43 Regular

    65
    Sep 23, 2012
    I can relate to your problem almost bought a Sony A57 at Best buy a few weeks ago and the D5100 prior to that because of the body size and the AF for moving subject but after evaluating myself on how I use my camera I find that there's a little need of PDAF since most of my subject does not demand C-AF.

    Last week I have a chance to shoot with 60D and I like the feel of handling DSLR there is something about it that make me feel confident every time I press the shutter. I think having MFT as the first system camera makes one wonder how it likes to have a bigger system.

    I can't deny that I am gear addicted person and the only thing that prevent me from going (or buying) to another system is realizing that my skill is not limited by my GX1 and its better to improve my skill than getting a better gear.

    Who knows I might surrender to the voice inside my brain to click that buy button. :p
     
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  6. wreckless

    wreckless Mu-43 Regular

    102
    Jan 15, 2011
    Michigan
    Mike
    If I owned an OM-D I wouldn't even have been looking at other cameras. I wish I had one.

    You do bring up good points, and sports and low light images are something I'd like to have a greater ability (gear wise) to do. I do feel limited by my G10 and E-PL1... I'd like a better/brighter image in the viewfinder. I'd like to have less noise at 1600 ISO (the images from the G10 and E-PL are unusable for 8X10 prints). And I really do mind the DR limitations, as I lose a lot in the shadows even as my skies are totally unrecoverable even from RAW.

    BUT I LOVE THE :43: SYSTEM!! I love the concept; the ability to carry my camera in a cargo pocket. I love not being limited by a dumb flippy mirror. I like that Panasonic and Olympus have this "Well why can't you do that? I bet we can do that... Lets make our camera do that" attitude that is putting the industry on their ear. But at the same time they seem to be losing ground to the competition who (IMHO) has already passed them in regard to innovation.

    So I dunno... :43: is great, and I've been an advocate of the system for almost two years. But....

    Nikons do make some nice pictures... IDFK maybe I'll rent a 5100 as a friend suggested (not here) and shoot it for a week.

    Keep the comments coming; I'll be back tomorrow.
     
  7. lenshoarder

    lenshoarder Mu-43 All-Pro

    Nov 7, 2010
    If you want a D5100, but it now from Staples. $450 after coupons for the kit.
     
  8. wreckless

    wreckless Mu-43 Regular

    102
    Jan 15, 2011
    Michigan
    Mike
  9. speedandstyle

    speedandstyle Mu-43 Hall of Famer

    Nikon makes good stuff and the D5100 is one of them. If you can justify the reasons to switch then do so. I am the other way around and going from Nikon DSLRs to m4/3. I still have some of my Nikon gear and am having a hard time justifying selling the last of it. However I rarely use them any more! The several times I have fallen back on them were in low light conditions or when I needed the better fast action ability or I thought the images might need to be printed poster size.

    I switched back one night because my EPL1 has no AF assist light and thus could not lock on and also because the horrible noise in the VF2 and LCD was driving me nuts. I also used them when I was shooting kids playing soccer because I could shoot more frames faster. But these and a couple of other times have been the only use the Nikons have seen since I got my first PEN.

    I want to get an EM5 and when I do that will probably mark the end of using my Nikons, well at least the bodys - the manual lenses are great adapted to m4/3.
     
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  10. dhazeghi

    dhazeghi Mu-43 Hall of Famer

    Aug 6, 2010
    San Jose, CA
    Dara
    There's nothing wrong with the D5100, but if you like the size of the E-PL1, you're going to be in for a rude surprise with the Nikon. It's not a large DSLR, but it's a lot larger than the Pen.

    In terms of noise and DR, the newer 16MP m4/3 do a lot better, particularly the Olympus ones and the G5. If you're overall happy with the E-PL1's handling, I'd look to an E-PM2.

    I don't quite understand your comment about the viewfinder - are you using the accessory VF-2 on the Pen - or are you talking about the G10? I'd say the VF-2 is in most respects better than the OVF on the lower-end Nikons, certainly in terms of size and brightness.

    Renting is a very good idea though.
     
  11. nueces snapper

    nueces snapper Mu-43 All-Pro

    Almost Everybody Has A Budget

    If I had a few million in the bank I spose I'd be shooting something else. But then I still would not want to lug it around. The most important thing to me is telephoto as I get the most pleasure from shooting wildlife. The absolute best for this is of course about $25k worth of Canikon equipment but I'd only go this way if I was rich and taking safari trips around the world on a regular basis.

    For me I truly have the best of all possible worlds (photographically) and I'm in it for under $5k. That's still a lot of money for most folks who have real lives, families and such. If photography is really important to one, I think it's worth getting the equipment one needs one way or the other. :smile:
     
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  12. Chuck Pike

    Chuck Pike Mu-43 Veteran

    333
    Apr 3, 2010
    Charlotte, NC.
    I moved from Nikon to m 4/3 and love it.

    I shot with Nikon for around 40 years, and they make great cameras, and never let me down. A lot of what you should do depends on what you shoot. I moved to m 4/3 because when I shot uptown, security always told me to stop, and that hasn't happened since I moved to m 4/3. I purchased the GF1, thinking if I didn't like it, I could sell it and stay with my Nikon. Like lots of other people, I ended up selling most of my Nikon equipment and keeping my GF1 and now own the G3. Here is the thing to think about. When we shot with film, the camera you had lasted 10 years or so between major model changes. You got to know your camera, what it could or couldn't do. I shoot everyday, and I am still learning about my G3. It takes as great a photo as my Nikon did and my Nikon was wonderful, just to big and heavy.

    What I would tell you, is to learn your equiment controls inside and out. Invest in lens that you can move to a better camera in the future. Use a tripod when ever possible. I shoot a lot of street so I don't use a tripod for that type of shooting. Invest in software, and learn how to use it. With film, the camera was a capture device. It was what you did in the darkroom that made the most difference. The same is true today. My camera does what I need, but I am really learning how to use my software. For me that is Lightroom, and all of the Nik Software.

    Images for books, magazines and calendars | photosbypike
     
    • Like Like x 1
  13. wreckless

    wreckless Mu-43 Regular

    102
    Jan 15, 2011
    Michigan
    Mike
    This is a G10, man.
    [​IMG]

    So you see I'm okay with having a DSLR style body and realize its limitations. I bought the E-PL1 so I'd have something i little more portable but I find I don't really carry it around everywhere, like I thought I might.

    I do like the handling of the G10 (same basic body as the G1 and G2), and I know I'll always need that kind of body for shooting at the track (I go to a lot of races), or doing any nature/wildlife/telephoto work.

    I'd like to keep the Oly because I can take it lots of places and be pretty invisible (like street shooting in Detroit, as an example). But I rarely do any snap-shooting; 95% of the time, if I'm taking pictures, I mean to be taking pictures. I prepare. I load up the bag and go off to the shoot.

    I think what I'd like to do is replace my G10 with a DSLR (d5100 most likely), and then upgrade my E-PL to something a little better later on like an E-PL5 or a GX2 (whenever that comes out). I do prefer the menus/button layout of the Pannys way better... We'll see. It seems my plan changes every day.

    Thanks for the input and opinions so far, everyone.
     
  14. kevwilfoto

    kevwilfoto Mu-43 Veteran

    294
    Sep 23, 2011
    Colorado
    I hope this personal confession helps someone out there.

    I have bought more gear than I would ever admit, always thinking I'm lacking something and deluding myself into the idea that just one more piece of gear will allow me to "realize my vision". I'm an utter fool. A gear addict.

    How many intelligent people fall prey to addiction and hypocritically try to convince others not to do what they themselves cannot stop doing? What is that? Noble? Stupid? Sad? Whatever it is, it's me, right here right now.

    Anyway ... some gear will do some things better than others, but for the most part even the cheapest gear you can find will make amazing images. If you think you need something special, you MUST realize that specialized gear is exponentially more expensive than the basics. I can't stress that enough. Bokeh is expensive. Long telephoto is expensive. Perspective correction is expensive. High resolution is expensive. Extreme ISO ... high frame rates ... studio-quality video ...

    People like me say "I WANT IT ALL!" and start convincing themselves they can afford to do it. 99% of us CAN'T. People like me take a hit to their pride when they hear of someone having a gallery showing of their fine art iPhone images. In truth, we don't need the world's best bokeh or longest lens or highest resolution. It's a trap.

    Finally (if you've read this far, thank you for listening) my advice:

    1. Rent what you think you need. For a week at least. Or borrow from a friend. Test it in a store. Don't follow what the Internet says.
    2. Ask someone you respect, especially as an authority figure, if your purchase makes sense. Your spouse, parents, boss, church elders, best friend's parents, etc. If you are too ashamed to do that, or can't explain the benefits, you have your answer.
    3. Be 100% honest with yourself whether that special gear is necessary. People make incredible images with smart phones and kit lenses all the time. Maybe the problem is YOU. Maybe you, like me, suck at photography and are trying to buy your way to the respect of others or into a photography business.

    Lastly - if you do have thousands of dollars in spare change burning a hole in your pocket and just want to spend it on something, and truly can afford to do so, by all means DO IT. The economy needs you. :)
     
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  15. lenshoarder

    lenshoarder Mu-43 All-Pro

    Nov 7, 2010
    Wrong one.

    Nikon D5100 Digital SLR Camera w/AF-S 18-55mm VR lens, Black | Staples®

    1) It's in stock.

    2) Use this 20% off coupon.

    Staples.com® | Staples® Coupons

    3) Ask next time instead of assuming.

    Will be $447 or so after the 20%. It comes off the full price before they take off the "instant discounts".
     
  16. jnewell

    jnewell Mu-43 All-Pro

    Jun 23, 2011
    Boston, MA
    Speaking as a current FX, DX and m4/3 at least for me and the things I like to do, DX fills a pretty narrow niche. It's sort of a reverse-Goldilocks situation. To me, DX as a stand-alone system is too big for what it offers...but YMMV!
     
  17. Ulfric M Douglas

    Ulfric M Douglas Mu-43 Hall of Famer

    Mar 6, 2010
    Northumberland
    You have neither the decent Lumix EVF (G10 is lower res) nor the Olympus VF-2 ... before switching I suggest trying a G1 or G2 or G3, or using the VF-2 on your e-pL1.
    A good viewfinder makes a world of difference.

    ISO 1600 on the e-pL2, e-P3, e-pL3 & e-pM1 is a bit better than the early models and they're mostly cheap now.

    For blown-out skies I avoid them by using ISO-bracket (which gives me jpegs covering the RAW range of DR) on my e-pL1 or proper bracketing on my G1. The Olympus works better for skies and I rarely lose much.
     
  18. Spuff

    Spuff Mu-43 Top Veteran

    652
    Dec 5, 2010
    Berkshire, UK.
    I would say they do.

    No noise reduction applied in post (set to 'normal' in camera) - I did adjust exposure and blacks. Shot in room lit by 60w equivalent bulb. f/5 :

    My EPL5 at ISO 1600 (squares on right in reality are 12mm across)
    <a href="http://www.flickr.com/photos/safetytrousers/8128939191/" title="epl5 iso 1600 by Safetytrousers, on Flickr">"640" height="323" alt="epl5 iso 1600"></a>

    and at ISO 3200
    <a href="http://www.flickr.com/photos/safetytrousers/8128941951/" title="epl5 iso 3200 by Safetytrousers, on Flickr">"640" height="320" alt="epl5 iso 3200"></a>
     
  19. Chronos

    Chronos Mu-43 Regular

    129
    Oct 18, 2012
    Colorado
    Chris
    for what it is worth for the last few years i shot with a Canon 60D + 50 f1/.4, a Nikon D7000 with a Nikon 24-70 2.8 and 70-200 f2.8, as well as a pair of tokina wide angles, various lighting gear, studio gear, flashes, etc.

    I am selling it all for m43.

    the main reason is weight reduction for timelapse work in areas which require lots of hiking.

    The Nikon D7k is an incredible camera and THE BEST crop sensor camera on the market in my opinion even years after its release.

    The OMD cant compete with the dynammic range, but aside from that it is so close in image quality i felt it was time to go with lightweight. I do not feel i sacrifice manual control, or any real image quality.

    I wouldnt really think you will find the grass greener on the other side of the fence as far as the D5100 goes.
     
  20. Steven

    Steven Mu-43 All-Pro

    May 25, 2012
    USA
    If you don't need the portability of the m43, then it's not really a "value" system for you. Especially if you prefer the optical viewfinders.