A fight over photography gets physical

[fsuscotphoto]

After looking at it again, the rent a cop lashed out first, physically...not correct procedure.

 

[goldenlight]

After looking at it again, the rent a cop lashed out first, physically...not correct procedure.

What really concerns me is that she appeared to have a weapon (for a security guard? ) which she tried to deploy despite clearly having neither the right training or temprement to use it.

 

[RobWatson]

What really concerns me is that she appeared to have a weapon (for a security guard? ) which she tried to deploy despite clearly having neither the right training or temprement to use it.

Security guards routinely are armed and generally trained (not very well in my opinion) with moderately frequent recertification for a whole spectrum of weapons from baton, chemical sprays, etc on up to and including firearms. Not every security guard gets "everything" but each is certainly capable of getting the training and certification if they meet the minimum requirements.

Of course there is quite a wide spectrum of duties for security guards from parking attendant to armored vehicle drivers/guards so one cannot be overly general without missing some critical distinctions.

It is very hard to see on the video but it looks like either a radio, 'taser' or spray to me. Certainly does not look like a firearm.

 

[GaryAyala]

Everybody was in the wrong. One of those lose-lose situations. If it was mall property the security guard was within her power to ask/demand they leave. Unless it is posted, the Lookie-Lou's could photograph.

The guard touching the biker ... could be construed as detaining an uncooperative trespasser.

If it wasn't mall property, then the security guard and the security guard's employer is in a whole world of hurt.

I would think, the security guard, at the first sign of 'dis-obedience' should have reported the situation to her superior, Lord knows she needs a superior ... and request back-up.

Gary

 

[Just Jim]

I think it is an example of a cross section of ordinary people who were understandably aggreived by the aggressive attitude and arrogance displayed by the security officer. I know that it descended into an unseemly brawl, but the officer actually started it and I think that is why she received little sympathy and no help from those who were there to witness the build up. Uniforms don't come with a guarantee of respect, the wearer has to earn it and this one clearly didn't.

Understandably? nope. Primal idiots reveling? Yup. The officer was likely enforcing the rules she was hired to enforce. The situation was started when the revelers refused to accept authority. There is no moral high ground they could dare assume.

 

[cprevost]

Looks to me like a public roadway. Mall Cop has no authority there. If it is a private roadway belonging to the Mall she has every right to ask the group to leave and stop taking photos. Can't confiscate their gear or make them delete photos though. She should have called Police to handle the situation. Nobody in their right mind would try to handle that many people alone. I think she'll probably be fired for this as the Mall has a liability issue on it's hands. She's in the wrong line of work anyway.

 

[kwalsh]

If it is a private roadway belonging to the Mall she has every right to ask the group to leave and stop taking photos.

Just to be clear, they can take photos - even on private property if it is a publicly accessible area as this clearly is. So while she can ask them to stop taking photos there is no need for them to comply. However, if it is private property (even publicly accessible) and she asks them to leave and they don't then that is trespass. While they are leaving they can continue to take photos of the area and her if they want.

In the US you are always allowed to take photos in publicly accessible areas - even if it is private property. This means malls, lobbies, etc. People can ask you to stop, you don't have to and they can't stop you. However, if it is private property they can ask you to leave, and if you don't you are now breaking the law (trespass).

See link I posted earlier.

 

[goldenlight]

Understandably? nope. Primal idiots reveling? Yup. The officer was likely enforcing the rules she was hired to enforce. The situation was started when the revelers refused to accept authority. There is no moral high ground they could dare assume.

It's somewhat ironic, we in the West are quick to endorse a student challenge to unreasonable (in our opinion) authority in Tiananmen Square, for example, but deny the right of minority interests to challenge what some believe to be unreasonable authority in our own countries. The law is the law, true, but there are ways of enforcing it by reason rather than aggressive confrontation and occasions when it is preferable not to enforce it in order to avoid a more serious situation. In Britain we call this policing by consent.

I can give you an example. Several years ago I attended a demonstration in support of photographer's rights outside New Scotland Yard, the headquarters of London's Metropolitan Force. We clearly took the police by surprise and they rapidly deployed a number of officers to attend to the situation. I'm sure that they could have ordered us to disperse under any number of laws, including obstructing the pavements or a threat to public order. Instead they focussed upon ensuring that people remained on the overcrowded pavement rather than step into the road and slowed passing traffic to ensure safety. By exercising restraint they contained the situation in a very professional and effective manner and the event remained good humoured on all sides.

 

[RobWatson]

Security guards generally do not have the right to detain in the case of trespass. Reasonable suspicion of shoplifting sure but not for trespass. Observe, report and call the real law enforcement for any actual enforcement actions (like removal of trespassers).

Criminal trespass is different from trespass. If there is a risk of bodily injury or destruction of property, etc then a security guard could detain depending on the agency and/or client policy. Generally as a matter of liability in all but the most clear cut cases the policy is to wait for law enforcement to arrive.

I have never heard or seen any credible agency train as a means of restraint a shove to the chest. I have seen a lot of street/bar fights start that way!

Mall Cop Fired Over Fight, No Word Yet on Charges - News, Sports, Jobs - The Intelligencer / Wheeling News-Register

 

[goldenlight]

Security guards generally do not have the right to detain in the case of trespass. Reasonable suspicion of shoplifting sure but not for trespass. Observe, report and call the real law enforcement for any actual enforcement actions (like removal of trespassers).

Criminal trespass is different from trespass. If there is a risk of bodily injury or destruction of property, etc then a security guard could detain depending on the agency and/or client policy. Generally as a matter of liability in all but the most clear cut cases the policy is to wait for law enforcement to arrive.

I have never heard or seen any credible agency train as a means of restraint a shove to the chest. I have seen a lot of street/bar fights start that way!

Mall Cop Fired Over Fight, No Word Yet on Charges - News, Sports, Jobs - The Intelligencer / Wheeling News-Register

I see from the link that the security guard has now been fired. Inevitable really.

 

[Livnius]

Sorry, but I laughed the whole way through that.

Who's right and who's wrong regrading trespassing etc I wouldn't know, but I'm not seeing a successful career in the tea leaves for that security guard....text book how NOT to manage a situation.

 

[fsuscotphoto]

On the other hand, you get idiot police.

http://www.infowars.com/cops-being-trained-that-cell-phones-could-be-guns/




Sent from my iPad using Mu-43 mobile app

 

[wildwildwes]

Mall... what mall?!?

That security guard was completely out of line (and was justifiably fired). The "offending" onlookers were photographing an accident outside! These days everyone seems to have a camera with them (thank you iPhone, etc). Documenting an accident outside is a far cry from taking pix inside a commercial venue... Perhaps the mall cop could have been more helpful at the sight of the accident (unless of course the trucker involved in the accident was taking pictures...)

Frankly, the biker chick who went to town on the security guard was somewhat amazing! I sure as hell wouldn't mess with her!