8-18, wait for Oly 8-25, or Laowa 10

Brownie

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Keep an eye out and be patient. I picked up a pristine copy of the 8-18 from craigslist for $550 after watching it for 3 months. I got rid of the PL 15 and Samyang 7.5. Both great lenses, but the 8-18 is more serviceable for me.
 

Generationfourth

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Keep an eye out and be patient. I picked up a pristine copy of the 8-18 from craigslist for $550 after watching it for 3 months. I got rid of the PL 15 and Samyang 7.5. Both great lenses, but the 8-18 is more serviceable for me.
Yes I think I saw an 8-18 on dpreview for $600 yesterday. I paid a lot more for mine used and it was definitely a lot more used than the sellers photos showed.
 

doady

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Around $900 USD and around 300g would make 8-25mm f4 a good alternative to 7-14mm F2.8, and also complement the 12-45mm F4 well, which I assume will be the whole point of the lens and the upcoming telephoto zooms grouped with it on the roadmap.

Along with 12-45mm F4, the 8mm F1.8 might be another example of what to expect ($1000 USD, 315g, no manual focus clutch, no function button).

I chose E-M1 II + 12-100mm mostly because I found the 12-40mm too big for E-M5 III when I tried the combos in the store. If there was 12-45mm or 8-25mm back then, maybe I would be an E-M5 III user today instead.

I am not sure the delays of a $7500, ultra-limited, specialized lens like 150-400mm is an indication of what to expect for those waiting for more consumer level product like 8-25mm f4. But then again the removal of the Olympus name and the loss of the Matching Simulation from the Micro Four Thirds website doesn't exactly inspire confidence either.
 

dwkdnvr

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I've been mulling over a wide lens for both photo and hopefully some video, and I think I'm amazed that we seem to have an embarassment of options and yet none of them seem to be exactly what I think I'm looking for. Probably just an indication that I'm locked in analysis paralysis. If the 10-25 were f/2.8 rather than f/1.7 and no bigger than the 12-100, and it was closer to $1k then it would probably be ideal but it's just too big and too expensive as it is. The 8-18 is probably what I'm closest to buying, but the lack of reach really means you're going to want to pair it with another lens and if you're doing that then maybe the 7-14/2.8 is more flexible. The 8-25 is intriguing, but f/4 just doesn't seem fast enough to be a complete solution.

I'd be surprised if the 8-25/4 is smaller than the 8-18 - wider zoom range, same aperture at the long end doesn't seem to be a recipe for a smaller lens - I'm guessing 400g or so, and $800-1000 seems to be what we have to accept at this point (i.e. basically the 12-40/2.8). Maybe Oly will sprinkle some of the magic dust they used in the 12-45 though - that really is a surprisingly small lens for what it offers. If they're willing to live with more software corrections than used in the 8-18, they might be able to squeeze it a bit. It doesn't sound like we should expect much concrete info on a release date soon, though - the recent interview seemed to suggest fall for announcements, but maybe we'll be surprised. (assuming it's still in the pipeline at all, of course)
 

Brownie

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The 8-18 is probably what I'm closest to buying, but the lack of reach really means you're going to want to pair it with another lens and if you're doing that then maybe the 7-14/2.8 is more flexible. The 8-25 is intriguing, but f/4 just doesn't seem fast enough to be a complete solution.
Not sure what you mean in this statement. The only thing I can think of is the constant 2.8 V the 2.8-4. If that's what it is, bear in mind that this is one stop. The difference between them when the 7-14 is at full extension is about 2/3 of a stop. If you don't need the extra mm in width, I think the 8-18 is the more flexible of the two.

The 8-18's stop chart is below. I was in your shoes about 6 months ago and when someone pointed this out to me, it closed the deal. Funny how we all know these things but it sometimes doesn't register until it's in black and white! (or in this case grey and white)

Capture.JPG
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JensM

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I too am waiting for the 8-25 f4. I have the mZD 9-18, and I love its small size and UWA perspective. I've seen the PL 8-18 and think it's a very good lens, but it's also a little big and expensive, along the lines of the Oly Pro lenses. I'd like weather-sealing, especially for travel. I'm hoping the 8-25 f4 Pro hits the sweet spot, and is also affordable. The good thing is that we have choices!
Expensive, I agree on. The size is rather dimutive for what it is. I think that a 8-25 will be at least as big and probably heavier than the 8-18.

I was under the impression that it was properly large, untill I got one, though, so there is always that. :)
 

dwkdnvr

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Not sure what you mean in this statement. The only thing I can think of is the constant 2.8 V the 2.8-4. If that's what it is, bear in mind that this is one stop. The difference between them when the 7-14 is at full extension is about 2/3 of a stop. If you don't need the extra mm in width, I think the 8-18 is the more flexible of the two.
I guess that was only a partially expressed thought. What I meant was that the 10-25 (or potentially upcoming 8-25) is attractive since it goes from UW to Normal, and can be a 'single lens solution' in many cases. The 8-18 doesn't quite extend up to the Normal range, meaning you're likely to add another lens to it in most cases to provide the extra reach. But IF you're carrying 2 lenses anyway, a 7-14/2.8 + other lens might be more flexible than 8-18 + other lens, particularly if 'other lens' was a 12-xx rather than just a prime.

I think part of my 'problem' with my thinking on this front is that I've been looking at the L-mount S5 recently. The S5 + 20-60 + 85/1.8 is actually a pretty attractive and flexible kit, although the 20-60 is variable aperture and actually slower than the 10-25 even after accounting for equivalence so it's not really apples-to-apples. But, you can get the S5 + 20-60 for not too much more than the 10-25 by itself at the moment, and I think I was looking to try to replicate the setup in M43 to see what it looked like.

The 8-18's stop chart is below. I was in your shoes about 6 months ago and when someone pointed this out to me, it closed the deal. Funny how we all know these things but it sometimes doesn't register until it's in black and white! (or in this case grey and white)

View attachment 882976
Hadn't seen that - slows down pretty gradually, which is nice.
 

Danny_SWE

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I recently made a little comparison, Ultra-Wide, across the systems :D to see what other lenses are available. UWA Zoom lenses then.

When I first read about the Lumix S lens 20-60 I thought that was the dream lens until I read reviews and also buy a new body just for one lens is not something that appealed.

But anyway, if my strange list could be of some help for anybody, here it is :)

It is not complete, just took the ones I saw as "competitors" to the upcoming Oly 8-25/4. Range column is 35mm equivalence.

Weight​
Size​
Range​
Factor​
Oly 8-25/4​
411 g​
77 x 89 mm​
16 – 50​
3,1​
Oly 9-18/4-5.6​
155 g​
57 x 50 mm​
18 – 36​
2​
Oly 7-14/2.8534 g79 x 106 mm14 - 282
PL 10-25/1.7​
690 g​
88 x 128 mm​
20 – 50​
2,5​
PL 8-18/2.8-4​
315 g​
73 x 88 mm​
16 – 36​
2,3​
P 7-14/4​
301 g​
75 x 83 mm​
14 – 28​
2​

Other systems
Lumix S 20-60/3.5-5.6​
350 g​
77 x 87 mm​
20 – 60​
3​
Canon EF 17-40/4​
475 g​
84 x 97 mm​
17 – 40​
2,4​
Nikon Z 14-30/4​
485 g​
89 x 85 mm​
14 – 30​
2,1​
Tamron 10-24/3.5-4.5​
440 g​
84 x 85 mm​
16 – 37​
2,3​
Fuji XF 10-24/4​
410 g​
78 x 87 mm​
15 – 36​
2,4​

Good link: https://www.bhphotovideo.com/explor...uide/wide-and-extreme-wide-angle-lenses-guide
 
Last edited:

Brownie

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I recently made a little comparison, Ultra-Wide, across the systems :D to see what other lenses are available. UWA Zoom lenses then.

When I first read about the Lumix S lens 20-60 I thought that was the dream lens until I read reviews and also buy a new body just for one lens is not something that appealed.

But anyway, if my strange list could be of some help for anybody, here it is :)

It is not complete, just took the ones I saw as "competitors" to the upcoming Oly 8-25/4. Range column is 35mm equivalence.

Weight​
Size​
Range​
Factor​
Oly 8-25/4​
411 g​
77 x 89 mm​
16 – 50​
3,1​
Oly 9-18/4-5.6​
155 g​
57 x 50 mm​
18 – 36​
2​
PL 10-25/1.7​
690 g​
88 x 128 mm​
20 – 50​
2,5​
PL 8-18/2.8-4​
315 g​
73 x 88 mm​
16 – 36​
2,3​
P 7-14/4​
301 g​
75 x 83 mm​
14 – 28​
2,0​

Other systems
Lumix S 20-60/3.5-5.6​
350 g​
77 x 87 mm​
20 – 60​
3​
Canon EF 17-40/4​
475 g​
84 x 97 mm​
17 – 40​
2,4​
Nikon Z 14-30/4​
485 g​
89 x 85 mm​
14 – 30​
2,1​
Tamron 10-24/3.5-4.5​
440 g​
84 x 85 mm​
16 – 37​
2,3​
Fuji XF 10-24/4​
410 g​
78 x 87 mm​
15 – 36​
2,4​

Good link: https://www.bhphotovideo.com/explor...uide/wide-and-extreme-wide-angle-lenses-guide
The 20-60 L mount is a pretty decent kit lens. It'd be nice if they gave it a bit more reach, like to 100, but not bad as it is. I love the P 12-60 range, so perfect would be 20 or 24 to 120.
 

Danny_SWE

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The 20-60 L mount is a pretty decent kit lens. It'd be nice if they gave it a bit more reach, like to 100, but not bad as it is. I love the P 12-60 range, so perfect would be 20 or 24 to 120.
Well, if that is what you want you have the 12-100/4 :)

Personally, I would like something like the upcoming 8-25/4 but smaller/lighter :) maybe 10-25/4 and made by Panasonic, then it could perhaps be small. Or the old Oly 9-18 with slighty increased reach.

I don't like large lenses, but at the same time I like zoom lenses. Hard compromise. But I think some lenses are just a tad too big for the E-M5. Don't feel like dragging around a big kit, that is not why I bought into the system at the first place :)
 

Brownie

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Well, if that is what you want you have the 12-100/4 :)

Personally, I would like something like the upcoming 8-25/4 but smaller/lighter :) maybe 10-25/4 and made by Panasonic, then it could perhaps be small. Or the old Oly 9-18 with slighty increased reach.

I don't like large lenses, but at the same time I like zoom lenses. Hard compromise. But I think some lenses are just a tad too big for the E-M5. Don't feel like dragging around a big kit, that is not why I bought into the system at the first place :)
I'm a firm believer in using Panny lenses on a Panny body. The only Oly lens I have is the 30mm Macro, and that's because it will get used mostly on a stand and it's a 1.25 Macro. When I was buying my G9 there was and Oly rep in the store. He tried very hard to get me into the 12-100.
 

Danny_SWE

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I'm a firm believer in using Panny lenses on a Panny body. The only Oly lens I have is the 30mm Macro, and that's because it will get used mostly on a stand and it's a 1.25 Macro. When I was buying my G9 there was and Oly rep in the store. He tried very hard to get me into the 12-100.
Aha, yes. Know what you mean. Tried with Panny-only a while but didn't manage :)

The 35-100 then? Coupled with a UWA-zoom. That would be a combo for plenty of range. I have both f/2.8 and the slower version. Great lenses both of them. Will have this combo myself for summer camera bag.

But that is no option for anyone that shoots much short tele range. Would mean a lot of lens swapping.
 

doady

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After finally seeing the pictures and specs, I thought maybe 8-25mm F4 was too ambitious, but 10-25mm F1.7 is even worse, lol.

It's cool they try to take advantage of the smaller sensor and push it to the limit and make some unique lenses, but ultra-wide, normal, ultra-bright, zoom, and constant aperture all in one might be too much.
 
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I recently made a little comparison, Ultra-Wide, across the systems :D to see what other lenses are available. UWA Zoom lenses then.

When I first read about the Lumix S lens 20-60 I thought that was the dream lens until I read reviews and also buy a new body just for one lens is not something that appealed.

But anyway, if my strange list could be of some help for anybody, here it is :)

It is not complete, just took the ones I saw as "competitors" to the upcoming Oly 8-25/4. Range column is 35mm equivalence.

Weight​
Size​
Range​
Factor​
Oly 8-25/4​
411 g​
77 x 89 mm​
16 – 50​
3,1​
Oly 9-18/4-5.6​
155 g​
57 x 50 mm​
18 – 36​
2​
PL 10-25/1.7​
690 g​
88 x 128 mm​
20 – 50​
2,5​
PL 8-18/2.8-4​
315 g​
73 x 88 mm​
16 – 36​
2,3​
P 7-14/4​
301 g​
75 x 83 mm​
14 – 28​
2,0​

Other systems
Lumix S 20-60/3.5-5.6​
350 g​
77 x 87 mm​
20 – 60​
3​
Canon EF 17-40/4​
475 g​
84 x 97 mm​
17 – 40​
2,4​
Nikon Z 14-30/4​
485 g​
89 x 85 mm​
14 – 30​
2,1​
Tamron 10-24/3.5-4.5​
440 g​
84 x 85 mm​
16 – 37​
2,3​
Fuji XF 10-24/4​
410 g​
78 x 87 mm​
15 – 36​
2,4​

Good link: https://www.bhphotovideo.com/explor...uide/wide-and-extreme-wide-angle-lenses-guide

I think you forgot the Olympus 7-14 f2.8 Pro.
 

LV426

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I had the 9-18 a long time ago and eventually settled on 12-35, 35-100 f/2.8's for my standard zooms. And some other primes and 100-400 as well. After getting a new iPhone I've been intrigued by the UWA lens and how dynamic the images are compared to the focal lengths I've been shooting for the past 5 years. The 8-18 makes the most sense but I'm also intrigued by the other options:
  • 8-25 f/4, the extended range might be useful here. For example going mountain biking with friends the G9 is pretty heavy and I'm limiting myself to one lens. Or even going on trips I don't like taking ALL my lenses so this could be an alternative to the 12-35. On the downside if I only use the 8-12 range I wonder how much I will be letdown by f/4. As far as cost I have a seller lined up for the 8-18, but what are the chances of the 8-25 being somewhat cheaper than the 8-18? Other downside is who knows when this will come out.
  • Laowa 10 + 12-35. This was the other option I entertained because it's the cheapest but obvious downsides is having to switch lenses, no weather sealing, and not having AF which maybe a dealbreaker for some close up action that I want to take.
  • Pany 7-14, I guess there is this one to
Since you have a 12-35/2.8 the Laowa would be a good choice as it is small and lightweight plus it is lower cost than the other options. You'll maintain larger aperture in both and when (and if) the 8-25mm becomes available you can sell off and get it. The 8-18mm would be a good option if it were replacing your 12-35mm – which doesn't sound like that would happen.
 

Danny_SWE

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I think you forgot the Olympus 7-14 f2.8 Pro.
Yes, I did :( made a new with pictures instead :)

Didn't take so many this time, here is the tool if needed:
https://camerasize.com/compact/

Oly-E-M5-lens-comparisons.jpg
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Last edited:

pdk42

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Leamington Spa, UK
I’ve used every single UWA zoom in the system (but obviously not yet the 8-25). I’ve now got the 8-18 and I’m very happy with it. In summary:

- O9-18: decent IQ, compact, takes filters, but 9mm not really wide enough and not waterproofed
- P7-14: good IQ, nice and wide, but doesn’t take filters, is not waterproofed, and produces purple ghosting on Olympus bodies
- O7-14: excellent IQ, nice and wide, waterproofed, but doesn’t take filters and it’s very heavy
- PL8-18: excellent IQ, wide enough, takes filters, waterproofed, light for its size

I’m tempted by the 8-25 for the extra range, but I can’t imagine it’ll be cheap. I’ll probably stick with the 8-18 - it really is a very good lens.
 

Danny_SWE

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I’ve used every single UWA zoom in the system (but obviously not yet the 8-25). I’ve now got the 8-18 and I’m very happy with it. In summary:

- O9-18: decent IQ, compact, takes filters, but 9mm not really wide enough and not waterproofed
- P7-14: good IQ, nice and wide, but doesn’t take filters, is not waterproofed, and produces purple ghosting on Olympus bodies
- O7-14: excellent IQ, nice and wide, waterproofed, but doesn’t take filters and it’s very heavy
- PL8-18: excellent IQ, wide enough, takes filters, waterproofed, light for its size

I’m tempted by the 8-25 for the extra range, but I can’t imagine it’ll be cheap. I’ll probably stick with the 8-18 - it really is a very good lens.
Thanks! It seems to what I feel also. And to add, 14-18 is a range I really want so the PL8-18 looks great. The extra speed in wide end can be good to have also, compared the fixed f/4 I mean.

I actually made a comparison between 18 and 25 with a simulator. It is not that much actually. I slight crop of the 18 image will do for the 25. But obviously, you have more crop margin in the 25 :)
https://imaging.nikon.com/lineup/lens/simulator/

So... I just pulled the plug and ordered the PL8-18. I like my other PL lens so I think this will be great. Found it at discount also :)
 

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