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7-14mm 2.8 Pro - Condensation

Discussion in 'Native Lenses' started by Tsky, Apr 20, 2016.

  1. Tsky

    Tsky New to Mu-43

    9
    Sep 21, 2015
    I've had the 7-14 pro for less than a year and it's had little enough use, maybe several hundred shots. I was out on a hill yesterday, fine sunny with tiny breeze and about 14c, and I was getting a large internal condensation spot in center of the lens. Putting back on the lens cover removed it after a few minutes but after being out in the sun it'd return. Should this be happening?
     
  2. ijm5012

    ijm5012 Mu-43 Hall of Famer

    Oct 2, 2013
    Pittsburgh, PA
    Ian
    Short answer: No, this should not be happening.

    Long answer: Condensation on the inside of the lens means that somehow moisture has gotten inside, and then in the presence of the heat caused by the sun, it is trying to evaporate. This shouldn't be happening with a weather resistant lens.

    If you bought it new and it truly is less than 1 year old, it should still be under warranty. I would call Olympus and get the lens serviced while it's still under warranty.
     
  3. wjiang

    wjiang Mu-43 Hall of Famer

    Actually this can easily happen to moisture resistant cameras and lenses. Remember all the fuss about OM-D viewfinders fogging up with air conditioning and tropical environments? E-M5 &gt Frequently Asked Questions

    Weather resistant lenses are NOT hermetically sealed - they only block a bit of light solid particle and liquid ingress, not air and water vapour. They must breathe to allow for a) thermal expansion and b) zooming elements. The 7-14 f/2.8 front element definitely extends a little during zooming, and this extension results in air displacement in and out of the lens. Such air will have moisture in it, and with enough moisture thus in the lens any rapid temperature differentials will cause condensation to form.

    You can try and get yours looked at, but I'd recommend that in future you take care when transitioning rapidly between hot and cold environments too quickly with the camera and lenses - you need to give them enough time to equalise slowly so that condensation does not form. A common solution if you must is to put the whole thing in a zip lock bag such that the environment in the bag is allowed to slowly equalise with the outside.
     
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  4. Tsky

    Tsky New to Mu-43

    9
    Sep 21, 2015
    Thanks for replies guys, I'll try and get it looked at. I wouldn't have been particularly surprised in winter or spring but was very surprised to see this in pretty much perfect conditions yesterday.
     
  5. bikerhiker

    bikerhiker Mu-43 All-Pro

    Dec 24, 2013
    Canada
    David
    Unless the lens itself is nitrogen filled and sealed you will get condensation in any camera and lenses that claimed to be weather sealed. In fact, part of my frustration with my Nikon AW110 which is waterproof is that it fogs up underwater in temperatures that are not even considered cold. I have to wait until the temperature equalizes before I can shoot with underwater. I even tried exchanging with another AW110 under warranty but got the same condensation problem.
     
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  6. rfortson

    rfortson Mu-43 Veteran

    Where was the lens before you went out to shoot? Was it in an air conditioned car? That will do it.

    As others have said, being a weather-sealed lens has nothing to do with condensation.
     
  7. Tsky

    Tsky New to Mu-43

    9
    Sep 21, 2015
    It was in the bag for an hour as I was hiking up a hill, prior to that it was in the car with windows open. There was no abrupt temp change and my 12-40 and 40-150 had no issue.
     
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  8. ijm5012

    ijm5012 Mu-43 Hall of Famer

    Oct 2, 2013
    Pittsburgh, PA
    Ian
    I was gonna say, I've used my 7-14 f/4, 12-35 f/2.8, and 35-100 f/2.8 in inclement weather before (cold weather, rain, etc.), and never experienced this issue. Granted, I am careful to allow the camera and lenses to slowly adjust to the temperature differences by remaining in the bag, but I've shot in everything from downpours to the polar vortex, and never encountered these issues internally (yes, I've gotten some condensation on the outside of the lens but just used a microfiber cloth to clean it off).
     
  9. pdk42

    pdk42 One of the "Eh?" team

    Jan 11, 2013
    Leamington Spa, UK
    Lots of good info here. I'll just add that you should consider drying your lens out before storing it by putting it into a bag with some sort of desiccant (silica gel etc). Long term trapped moisture can lead to fungus and other problems.
     
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  10. rfortson

    rfortson Mu-43 Veteran

    In that case I may wonder about it since it had plenty of time to acclimate.

    Sent from my HTC Desire Eye using Tapatalk
     
  11. bikerhiker

    bikerhiker Mu-43 All-Pro

    Dec 24, 2013
    Canada
    David
    One of the achilles heels of a weather-sealed lens is that, it has "POOR" VENTING capabilities. So while the seals are good in keeping dust, water and dirt out, the seals are also very good at keeping warm moist air in the lens a little longer than normal lenses do and has little means to "VENT" out as opposed to a normal un-sealed camera or un-sealed lens. This had been my experience while working with my PRO Nikkor or Nikon bodies and lenses that are sealed as opposed to those that aren't sealed. The same happens to my Olympus E-5 viewfinder and 14-54 Mk 1. It does not happen with my VF-4 EVF on my E-P5 and my non-sealed primes and zooms as much. The Panasonic 35-100mm f/2.8 suffered the same fate too. And it's dependent on which are exposed to warm moist air that would condense the most. My Nikon AW110 is the worst offender.

    Condensation is a function of change in the physical state of matter from the gaseous state to the liquid state. As long as the lens has oxygen in it which it will, it will condense when the right humidity and atmospheric conditions exist. I suppose you can send it to Olympus to have it vent out the warm moist air by placing it near a dehumidifier, but then when you expose to warm moist air again, it will again accumulate in the lens and then eventually condense at the right conditions. Dehumidifier is a trick I use to draw moisture out of a sealed lens and cameras after a hike, snow or rain shoot so it won't easily condense as bad on the next hike. You can make a small enclosure for this at home.

    Hope this clears things up.
     
    Last edited: Apr 20, 2016
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  12. hazwing

    hazwing Mu-43 All-Pro

    Nov 25, 2012
    Australia
    try putting the lens in a ziplock bag with a large bag of dessicant. Hopefully that might get rid of the moisture trapped in the lens.
     
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  13. Joe Smith

    Joe Smith Mu-43 Regular

    126
    Mar 6, 2016
    This has nothing to do at all with oxygen or not oxygen. (If you're interested in the underlying physics, then google "vapor pressure".) The rest of your post is more or less correct. The point is you must somehow get that humidity out of the lens. This is done by venting the lens in a dry environment. With external zooming (or focusing) lenses you can speed up the venting by zooming (of focusing) in and out several times. (BTW I don't know, but I wouldn't be surprised if the lens coating were designed to have some anti mist up effect.)
     
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  14. bikerhiker

    bikerhiker Mu-43 All-Pro

    Dec 24, 2013
    Canada
    David
    Marine and waterproof binoculars are filled with Nitrogen gas and sealed to prevent fogging. Why not sealed it with oxygen?

    Fluorine coating on the front lens element of some lenses and filters do offer water repellency. But I am not aware that it offers anti-fogging. If so, it is limited. My Adidas sport sunglasses supposed to have this anti-fogging coating, but didn't even work as advertised.
     
    Last edited: Apr 21, 2016
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  15. Joe Smith

    Joe Smith Mu-43 Regular

    126
    Mar 6, 2016
    Air in it's basic form is roughly 80% nitrogen and 20% oxygen. Marine binoculars are sealed, so no humidity can enter them. Before sealing, they are filled with *some* gas (to have atmospheric pressure inside). The point is, that gas should be absolutely dry (contain no humidity). The cheapest solution by far to get an absolutely dry gas is to get some liquified nitrogen and let it evaporate.
     
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  16. hazwing

    hazwing Mu-43 All-Pro

    Nov 25, 2012
    Australia
    Air is composed of a mix of gases, mainly nitrogen and about 20% oxygen.

    From wikipedia:
    "By volume, dry air contains 78.09% nitrogen, 20.95% oxygen, 0.93% argon, 0.039% carbon dioxide, and small amounts of other gases. Air also contains a variable amount of water vapor, on average around 1% at sea level, and 0.4% over the entire atmosphere."

    I don't claim to be an expert but the condensation would be due to the water vapour (H2O) not oxygen (O2)
     
  17. hazwing

    hazwing Mu-43 All-Pro

    Nov 25, 2012
    Australia
    Also pure oxygen is highly flammable, probably not a good idea filling up binoculars with that!
     
  18. Carbonman

    Carbonman Mu-43 All-Pro

    Jul 10, 2014
    Vancouver BC
    Graham
    Nitrogen is used in part because it's cheap; there's a lot more nitrogen in the atmosphere (78%) than oxygen (21%) or other gases, and it doesn't react with other materials as readily as oxygen.
    Oxygen doesn't condense to form fog or water droplets - a pair of hydrogen atoms bonded with one oxygen atom will because it's water in gaseous form
     
  19. hazwing

    hazwing Mu-43 All-Pro

    Nov 25, 2012
    Australia
    ...so he edits his post instead of admitting he not right about everything...
     
  20. bikerhiker

    bikerhiker Mu-43 All-Pro

    Dec 24, 2013
    Canada
    David
    Please read this from the website of Southteksystems.com because many of you just Wikipedia stuff. :)

    Nitrogen Generators - South-Tek Systems

    From the site...
    Food Packaging Using Nitrogen Gas - Industrial Applications - South-Tek Systems

    Manufacturers often use a Nitrogen gas purge to displace oxygen from the package before sealing it closed. The presence of OXYGEN introduces moisture which can deteriorate the food quality. Using Nitrogen to PURGE food packaging of oxygen is a safe practice widely used throughout the industry!

    This process is also used in binoculars. Why do I know this? It's because, I used to service marine binoculars and also used to work in the food industry where we used to purge oxygen using Nitrogen gas before it is sealed!! So I'm speaking from experience not theories. We use Nitrogen gas to PURGE the internal sealed housing of oxygen. It's the moisture in the gas that can cause condensation due to atmospheric conditions.

    Yes, I'm well aware of our our atmospheric environment and all of you are correct in stating that fact. But why would food industries use Nitrogen gas to displace oxygen if moisture is not an issue?!? :)

    If all of you disagree with me in using the term Oxygen, then you also will say that South Tek Systems is also wrong. That I doubt..

    And yes, I do edit the pieces and saved not because I changed my mind. Because I don't own the latest biggest screen computer. And my eye-sights are not as good as young people so I need to save to see it on the big screen.
    It's very sad that people need to be arrogant and to belittle people to exact some sort of revenge here without any compassion of other people's situation. Is this the new norm. You disagree by putting people down?
     
    Last edited: Apr 21, 2016