1. Reminder: Please use our affiliate links to get to your favorite stores for holiday shopping!

30mm f3.5 macro vs 60mm f2.8 macro

Discussion in 'Native Lenses' started by Niemer, Sep 19, 2016.

  1. Niemer

    Niemer Mu-43 Regular

    40
    May 6, 2016
    Jesse
    Advantages/Disadvantages of each? I like doing close up work, but admittedly I know little about the mechanics and optical properties of macro lenses. I was reasonably certain that the 60mm was my next lens, but now I'm not so sure.
     
  2. Nathanael

    Nathanael Mu-43 Veteran

    380
    Oct 12, 2015
    Do you want to have your lens 10cm away from your subject or 5cm away when doing full 1:1 (i.e. 18mm object fills the frame) macro shots.
     
  3. Niemer

    Niemer Mu-43 Regular

    40
    May 6, 2016
    Jesse
    The extra working distance of the 60 would be better for me, but the extra magnification of the 30 is attractive also. I think the 60 will still be my avenue since I would like to capture things that are living.
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  4. piggsy

    piggsy Mu-43 All-Pro

    Extra magnification on the 60 can easily be achieved with extension tubes or a diopter set (the latter will also reduce the focal length, the Raynox DCR-250 will put it at about 35mm / 1.75x ish). The 60 can't do the same FOV as the 30mm at infinity though.
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  5. Niemer

    Niemer Mu-43 Regular

    40
    May 6, 2016
    Jesse
    I have the 12-40, so FOV @ infinity isn't a factor for me at least. Good point about the extension tubes, I didn't think about that. They do reduce the light gathering ability as a side effect, correct?
     
  6. piggsy

    piggsy Mu-43 All-Pro

    Yes, but at least as far as I am aware, not to any extent that you wouldn't get from the same magnification and depth of field achieved any other way (macro effective aperture being the culprit rather than some property of the tubes themselves).
     
  7. Giiba

    Giiba Something to someone somewhere

    273
    Aug 19, 2016
    Burnaby, BC
    If you shoot with an e-m1 the 60 supports the in camera focus stacking feature. So far it seems the 30 will not support this; this may or may not change I suppose.
     
  8. Austrokiwi

    Austrokiwi Mu-43 Regular

    46
    Mar 19, 2016
    I was disappointed with Olympus's marketing of the 30 mm macro. They are claiming it has an effective maximum magnification of 2.5-1. In claiming that they are saying 1mm of the subject will cover 2.5mm on the sensor. However that's not true some macro ignoramus working for Olympus miss-applied the crop factor ( which only applies to field of view). The lens is impressive because it correctly has a maximum magnification of 1.25 -1. Either Olympus has an idiot in their marketing department or alternately they think their customers are idiots.
     
    Last edited: Sep 21, 2016
    • Agree Agree x 1
  9. johnvanatta

    johnvanatta Mu-43 Regular

    181
    Aug 5, 2014
    Oakland, CA
    I think it's because 1:1 on a smaller sensor *appears* to magnify more. A 17mm bug at 1:1 on m43 will span the entire frame, on full frame at the same 1:1 it'll only span ~half the frame. When you look at the pictures on a monitor, BAM!, m43 will have a bigger bug. Twice as big.

    So they are probably (ab)using a rare form of equivalence for their marketing.
     
  10. piggsy

    piggsy Mu-43 All-Pro

    I've seen it listed as "2.5x (35mm equivalent)" which is ... well, not as bad as it could be, I've seen them list other macros without that disclaimer in the past for the old 4/3rds macros. But printing it as the ratio 2.5:1 or 2.5x without that is pretty rubbish.
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  11. Giiba

    Giiba Something to someone somewhere

    273
    Aug 19, 2016
    Burnaby, BC
    It is print equivalence. At the same output size, say 8x10”, the 17mm bug will be twice the size. To crop and get the same resolution you would need a 64mp FF sensor, so I don't feel Olympus is entirely dishonest here; bending the truth less than marketers usually do...
     
  12. piggsy

    piggsy Mu-43 All-Pro

    Straight up though, you're dealing with a ratio measure on the lens and it has nothing to do with the sensor size.
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  13. Giiba

    Giiba Something to someone somewhere

    273
    Aug 19, 2016
    Burnaby, BC
    True, the 30 is truly 1.25:1 but on a smaller sensor.
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  14. Giiba

    Giiba Something to someone somewhere

    273
    Aug 19, 2016
    Burnaby, BC
    It seems the 30mm is listed as supporting the stacking feature in the press release on the e-m1ii

    "Lenses compatible with Focus Stacking mode: M.Zuiko Digital ED 7-14mm f2.8 PRO, M.Zuiko Digital ED 8mm f1.8 Fisheye PRO, M.Zuiko Digital ED 12-40mm f2.8 PRO, M.Zuiko Digital ED 40-150mm f2.8 PRO, M.Zuiko Digital ED 300mm f4.0 IS PRO, M.Zuiko Digital ED 30mm f3.5 Macro, and M.Zuiko Digital ED 60mm f2.8 Macro"

    Interestingly the 8mm, 7-14mm, and 300mm are also listed but not currently supported by the e-m1i.
     
  15. Austrokiwi

    Austrokiwi Mu-43 Regular

    46
    Mar 19, 2016
    I do macro work up to around 10X magnification. I like the MFT sensor because it requires less magnification for the same field of view( compared to a larger sensor).... less magnification means less problems with DLA ( Diffraction limited aperture) 1-1 on a MFT sensor is not overly useful for me. 1.25 - 1 , despite it being one of the very few greater than 1-1 macros, is even less useful (for me). the "x"-"x" ratio for magnification indicates actual magnification and applying the crop factor is a major misrepresentation from my perspective
     
    Last edited: Sep 22, 2016
    • Agree Agree x 2
  16. piggsy

    piggsy Mu-43 All-Pro

    I would be willing to bet that the olympus scientific/medical imaging marketing people wouldn't go within farting range of that 35mm equivalent stuff when talking to an audience who deal with significant magnifications in everyday work.
     
    Last edited: Sep 22, 2016
    • Agree Agree x 1
    • Winner Winner x 1
  17. afg08

    afg08 Mu-43 Regular

    33
    Nov 26, 2015
    It's already in stock at B&H and Adorama. I'm tempted.
     
  18. Holoholo55

    Holoholo55 Mu-43 All-Pro

    Aug 13, 2014
    Honolulu, HI
    Walter
    Getting additional magnification out of the 60 with extension tubes would be great. I should look into that. I'd get an automatic set that maintains the electronic connection between the lens and body, like the Kenko. The 60 is also a very good portrait lens, especially if you're already carrying a 12-40. I sometimes take my EM5 with the Pana 12-32 and the Oly 60 as a light travel kit. The 60 allows for both flower and insect photos as well as a short telephoto. I would find the 30 to work too close for macro. The camera/lens would block some of the light. Wish they included some built-in close-up lights like the Canon EF-M lens.
     
  19. tkbslc

    tkbslc Mu-43 Hall of Famer

    Magnification ratios have no relevance on digital sensors.
     
  20. Austrokiwi

    Austrokiwi Mu-43 Regular

    46
    Mar 19, 2016

    Please explain. I use them as a start point, and I need to know what magnification I a using So I can estimate the DOF and therefore the diffraction limited aperture. Meaning : Finding the largest F stop( smallest aperture) I can use without diffraction being an issue.
     
    Last edited: Sep 23, 2016