Sell 17mm f1.8 and 25mm f1.4 for 20mm?

[Jermonic]

I had 30-50 photos with heavy banding (mostly at ISO 1600), before I felt forced to sell my P20. Banding is real, at least it was on my P20 copy. From looking at the 100s of discussions about the issue, others have it as well.

 

[Bif]

I had the P20 as one of the first m43 lenses I purchased. I "hung onto" it for it's size when I purchased the P25. I found autofocus to be OK in daylight but it does "hunt" in low light to varying degrees depending on how low the light is, so in any "marginal" lighting environments I simply go MF.

I've got all my Panasonic bodies set for "back button" autofocus. One press of the AF/AE button gives one SAF operation, locks focus there, and automatically shifts to MF. I have the MF+ASSIST set to ON and that "kicks in" as I start turning the lens focus ring (magnified view lets me "nail" focus easily). That "mode" remains in effect picture after picture (or video "take" after "take") until the AF/AE button is pressed a second time, mode is changed, or camera powered down.

Best of both AF and MF with one press of a button, but it lets me live very easily with the P20 lens.

 

[EarthQuake]

I saw banding on my EM5+20/1.7, but it was only really noticeable/objectionable at ISO 3200 and higher. It seems there are certain combos of cameras with the 16MP Sony sensor that banding is apparent, that much is sure, how much of an issue it is is really subjective though. I did the reverse of the OP and replaced my 20/1.7 with the 25/1.8 and 17/1.8(which was later replaced with the 12/2), and banding wasn't a big reason for the switch. AF was my primary concern.

 

[TonyZhang]

AF on my 20mm is good but sometimes slower than the new lenses.
TonyZhang how do you find AF on yours?

I find AF absolutely fine for my purposes. Sure, it's a little bit slower but doesn't negatively affect my experience of the lens whatsoever. In fact I'm surprised that so many people are complaining about the focus speed, I guess we've just been spoilt by the wide range of lighting quick m43 lenses we have access to.

I had 30-50 photos with heavy banding (mostly at ISO 1600), before I felt forced to sell my P20. Banding is real, at least it was on my P20 copy. From looking at the 100s of discussions about the issue, others have it as well.

I saw banding on my EM5+20/1.7, but it was only really noticeable/objectionable at ISO 3200 and higher. It seems there are certain combos of cameras with the 16MP Sony sensor that banding is apparent, that much is sure, how much of an issue it is is really subjective though. I did the reverse of the OP and replaced my 20/1.7 with the 25/1.8 and 17/1.8(which was later replaced with the 12/2), and banding wasn't a big reason for the switch. AF was my primary concern.

Yes, I have noticed issues with banding. It is only apparent at ISO 3200 and above in most situations, and less so if you expose to the right. At ISOs 800 to 1600 I have noticed it when I lift the shadows a lot and push the exposure heavily, but it doesn't affect me in real life situations. I have noticed that using the electronic shutter completely eliminates the banding issue, at least on my em5 ii. So for ISO 1600 and above, I just use electronic shutter and banding virtually becomes a non issue. Still wish I didn't have to worry about switching to e-shutter the whole time though.

I had the P20 as one of the first m43 lenses I purchased. I "hung onto" it for it's size when I purchased the P25. I found autofocus to be OK in daylight but it does "hunt" in low light to varying degrees depending on how low the light is, so in any "marginal" lighting environments I simply go MF.

I've got all my Panasonic bodies set for "back button" autofocus. One press of the AF/AE button gives one SAF operation, locks focus there, and automatically shifts to MF. I have the MF+ASSIST set to ON and that "kicks in" as I start turning the lens focus ring (magnified view lets me "nail" focus easily). That "mode" remains in effect picture after picture (or video "take" after "take") until the AF/AE button is pressed a second time, mode is changed, or camera powered down.

Best of both AF and MF with one press of a button, but it lets me live very easily with the P20 lens.

In my opinion, the low light AF performance is fine, it hunts a little at times but always nails it in the end, but then again I do use the AF assist lamp. I have my 2 way control level set to toggle AF/MF, so in the rare cases that AF does let me down, I can switch to MF very quickly.

One thing that I did find disappointing with the 20mm however, is the inability to use a fast burst mode with the lens stopped down. It seems like the lens is too stupid to keep the aperture closed down during the burst shooting, and opens and closes it each time. The 20mm is also particularly slow at doing this, so the 11fps burst rate drastically drops by about f2.8, but the difference in speed is slightly noticeable even at f2. After I noticed this phenomenon, I tried it with my 17mm and 25mm f1.4. The 17mm keeps the aperture locked down and maintains the 11fps burst throughout it's aperture range. However the 25mm f1.4 does the same thing as the 20mm, albeit to a far less noticeable degree, and maintains a fast burst up to f8 or so. The 20mm does this on my Panasonic g6 too, so it doesn't seem to be an issue on only Olympus bodies.

 

[Jermonic]

The banding I saw on my E-PL5 was this (here ISO 1600): https://www.mu-43.com/threads/76383/page-3#post-789832

I guess some people wouldn't mind it, but for me it's hard to ignore.

 

[TonyZhang]

The banding I saw on my E-PL5 was this (here ISO 1600): https://www.mu-43.com/threads/76383/page-3#post-789832

I guess some people wouldn't mind it, but for me it's hard to ignore.

Oh wow, that's horrible banding, I doubt anybody on this forum wouldn't mind that. Mine is nowhere near as bad as that, only looking like that when I underexpose at ISO 6400 or 12800. For me, as long as I shoot e-shutter, there are no banding issues, and even with the mechanical shutter under ISO 3200, it's only somewhat noticeable when I underexpose an image or have to lift shadows/push my exposure.

 

[EarthQuake]

The banding I saw on my E-PL5 was this (here ISO 1600): https://www.mu-43.com/threads/76383/page-3#post-789832

I guess some people wouldn't mind it, but for me it's hard to ignore.

Just curious, did you push the exposure up in post with this shot? I didn't see anything near as bad as this when I had the 20mm at 1600. Even at 3200 it wasn't this noticeable.

 

[bigboysdad]

As an Olympus user, that banding issue with the 20 is definitely there, maybe not at first, but it always eventually arrives. Even when night street shooting i try to limit iso to 800 and never ever over 1600. For all that, it's still a favourite.

 

[Jermonic]

Just curious, did you push the exposure up in post with this shot? I didn't see anything near as bad as this when I had the 20mm at 1600. Even at 3200 it wasn't this noticeable.

No, it's almost OOC, I only applied noise reduction and sharpening. Oftentimes I could easily see the banding on the LCD after taking the image, this wasn't actually the worst I got from ISO 1600.

Maybe E-PL5 was just bad in this regard, I don't know.

 

[TonyZhang]

As an Olympus user, that banding issue with the 20 is definitely there, maybe not at first, but it always eventually arrives. Even when night street shooting i try to limit iso to 800 and never ever over 1600. For all that, it's still a favourite.

No, it's almost OOC, I only applied noise reduction and sharpening. Oftentimes I could easily see the banding on the LCD after taking the image, this wasn't actually the worst I got from ISO 1600.

Maybe E-PL5 was just bad in this regard, I don't know.

If I had issues as seriously as you guys, then the 20mm would definitely have to go. Thankfully, the problem seems to be much more mild on the em5ii. Nonetheless it's still frustrating that such an issue occurs on a supposedly compatible lens body combination.

 

[Jermonic]

It's promising to hear that the electronic shutter eliminates the problem, because looking at my P20 shots, I really miss it. But the E-M10 doesn't have the e-shutter, unfortunately.

 

[jello212]

It's promising to hear that the electronic shutter eliminates the problem, because looking at my P20 shots, I really miss it. But the E-M10 doesn't have the e-shutter, unfortunately.

I thought the E-M10 does have the e-shutter if you've applied the latest firmware. Just set the delay to 0 seconds.

 

[barry]

I thought the E-M10 does have the e-shutter if you've applied the latest firmware. Just set the delay to 0 seconds.

Anti-shock uses First Curtain electronic shutter... Not sure if that helps with this or not.

Barry

 

[Jermonic]

I thought the E-M10 does have the e-shutter if you've applied the latest firmware. Just set the delay to 0 seconds.

It's not a real electronic shutter, is it? I mean, it's not silent (at least not here when shooting < 1/320). But maybe I'm wrong.

 

[tkbslc]

It's not a real electronic shutter, is it? I mean, it's not silent (at least not here when shooting < 1/320). But maybe I'm wrong.

No, like he said it is electronic first curtain. The mechanical shutter still closes afterward to finish the capture. You eliminate some issues this way (like most shutter shock, etc) but the shutter still has to move one cycle.

 

[TonyZhang]

Anti-shock uses First Curtain electronic shutter... Not sure if that helps with this or not.

Barry

Unfortunately electronic first curtain doesn't seem to resolve the issue, in my case at least. Whether it is a bit better than a full mechanical shutter, I'm not too sure but I wouldn't think so.

 

[jyc860923]

The AF in the 20mm is not slow, but the 17mm f1.8 AF is so quick and silent it will feel like it in comparison. The main issue with the 20mm f1.7 is that the AF simply cannot handle continuous AF.

Given that you have a "14mm" in the RIcoh, maybe you just ditch the 17mm and keep 25/45 for the Olympus. 14-25-45 is a nice progression.

The OP uses EM5II and as I understand you use GX7, I tested the P20, the AF is obviously worse on Olympus.

 

[TonyZhang]

The OP uses EM5II and as I understand you use GX7, I tested the P20, the AF is obviously worse on Olympus.

I had a g6 too. On the g6, the 20mm focused a bit faster than it did on my em5ii. Noticeable, yes, but enough to impact my shooting experience? No. It is completely adequate for my purposes.

 

[jyc860923]

I had a g6 too. On the g6, the 20mm focused a bit faster than it did on my em5ii. Noticeable, yes, but enough to impact my shooting experience? No. It is completely adequate for my purposes.

good to know, I have a G6 too, it was on my EPL5 when the P20 really struggled in darker conditions, but I never had any banding issue. And I wouldn't be surprised if the EM5II has improved AF over EPL5, have fun shooting