Panasonic probably has an excess of 12mp sensors. We probably won't see the 16mp sensor until the GF6!

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Jonathan
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www.jonathanfriolo.com

As an E-PL2 user, I am not going to say that the sensor is "bad", but its high ISO performance is really pretty grim. I will say that the sensor was "OK" in its time, but time has moved on. If Olypmus and Panasonic continue to put out "the same old sensors" I think there will be other competing cameras which will prosper at their expense.

There are certain fixed costs involved in sensor production which will not materially change from one generation to the next unless there is a major change in yields as a result of changes in fab technology. As I see it, the major cost differential between an old sensor and a new one is the R&D expense, the expense of new masks for use in the steppers and the development of better ASICs and associated firmware. Any company that does not have an well funded, ongoing R&D program will soon be left behind. As quickly as the mu43 segment arose it can decline if development stagnates. The Nikon 1 series, which is due for an update before too long, and cameras sure to follow its model represent a very real threat to the mu43 segment. The 1 series is "almost pocketable" and is most certainly good enough for web base work and may actually exceed the performance of most of the current mu43 sensors.

Did I mention Fuji? The X-Pro 1's sensor performance is rather remarkable. Though rather more expensive than mu-43 bodies, it is still reasonably small. If Fuji chose to move down in size from the X-Pro 1 I would expect it to represent a very real threat to Olympus and Panasonic.

While the mu43 systems have a greater selection of lenses than the X-Pro 1 at the present time there are bound to be more lenses on the way from Fuji.

Apart from a convenient size, the mu43 format has a number of reasonably priced lenses, though more recent introductions are dramatically changing the price point of lenses. I question that this is the direction the format should take. Some of these lenses are more expensive than their APS-C equivalents which makes little sense to me. There are some very fine APS-C DSLRs which are price competitive with some of the mu43 offerings with superior sensor performance. If Panasonic and Olympus fail to keep up and fail to maintain price points that have brought them success the mu43 movement can disappear as quickly as the netbook market segment has.

Cheers

That's right... I have no problem with a 12mp sensor - particularly on the smaller cameras. Just use all of the latest technology.

Here's another thing that's been nagging at me: Just how far behind is the first-generation sensor compared with the competition? For example, could it be that the one-inch sensor in Sony's new RX100 fixed-lens digicam is better? Never mind things like better life depth-of-field control with larger sensors. I'm talking about noise, high-ISO performance and overall image quality. If that's the case, Panny and Oly had better move fast.

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Panasonic G5 and Panasonic GX1, Lumix 14-45mm f/3.5-5.6, Lumix 45-150mm f/4-5.6, Lumix 100-300mm f/4-5.6, Lumix 14mm f/2.5, Lumix 20mm f/1.7

Olympus E-PM2, Zuiko 9-18mm f/4.0-5.6, Zuiko 14-42mm f/3.5-5.6 II R, Zuiko 14-150mm f/4.0-5.6, Zuiko 40-150 f/4.0-5.6 R, Zuiko 15mm body-cap lens, Zuiko 17mm f/1.8, Zuiko 45mm f/1.8

I would not care if the sensor was still 12 MP, so long as the high ISO performance matches the G3 and EM5. Also, focus peaking - please focus peaking!

^I agree with PointZero. I'm happy with 12MP sensor - a significant improvement in noise reduction and high ISO performance should still make the cameras attractive. For an everyday camera and a casual shooter, the 20+ MB file and the extra resolution are not really necessary.

I know that the higher pixel count is great marketing tool but we know too well that image quality and over-all performance matter most.

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OLYMPUS PEN EPL1
M.ZUIKO DIGITAL ED 45mm F1.8
M.ZUIKO DIGITAL ED 14-42mm F3.5-5.6
M.ZUIKO DIGITAL ED 40-150mm F4.0-5.6
LUMIX G 14mm F2.5 ASPH
LUMIX G 20mm F1.7 ASPH
CANON D10

I'm carrying exactly the same hope and opinion since now I hate that the camera I love (gf3) doesn't satisfy me with IQ as much as it does with the compactness and ease of use, the smallest camera doesn't necessarily have to aim low, but OTOH it's also reasonable for Panasonic's market segmentation.

There's another thing quite bothering me if I want to make an upgrade purchase in the future, P&O both like to sacrifice details for smoothness on the latest models!!!

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http://www.flickr.com/photos/jyc860923/
Panasonic DMC-GF3
Olympus PEN E-PL5
Panasonic Leica Summilux DG 25mm f/1.4
Lumix G Vario 14-45mm f/3.5-5.6 ASPH/MEGA O.I.S.
Lumix G Vario 45-200mm f/4-5.6 MEGA O.I.S.
Sigma Art 60mm F2.8 DN
Lumix G 14mm f/2.5 ASPH
M.Zuiko Digital 14-42mm f3.5-5.6 II
mecablitz 44 AF-1 digital

When Olympus brought out the 12MP sensor in the E30 & E620, they also added the E450 to follow on from the E420 with 10 megapixels, 3 Art Filters & 18 Scene Select Automatic Exposure Modes. It may be possible the E-PM2 will have the 12MP sensor with some additional improvements to allow it to be available at a low price & if they keep the E-PL & E-P models (or maybe combine them?), then I would imagine they would have the 16MP sensor with appropriate level of inclusions for their price point. I am still puzzled why the E-PL3 had the faster shutter speed (sequential) when the E-P3 didn't.

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Ross
I fiddle with violins (when I'm not fiddling with a camera).
Cameras: Olympus OM-D E-M5 with HLD-6, E30 with HLD-4, E520.
Lenses: M.ZD12-50, M.ZD60 Macro, M.ZD75-300 Mk II, MMF-3, ZD14-42, ZD40-150, ZD70-300, ZD14-54 II, ZD35 macro, EC14, EX25, OM50 1.8, OM28 2.8, Sigma 150mm F2.8 APO Macro DG.
Flashes: FL36R X2, FL50R, FL50. Other: Soligor bellows & adapters. Velbon Sherpa 600R tripod.

Olympus had to redesign the shutter mechanism for the smaller bodies of the EPM1 and EPL3, and clearly took advantage of the redesign to up the fps.

If the Pen EP5 is to exist, I am guessing it, too, will receive a new redesigned shutter, as 3fps is looking dated, and would look VERY bad between 9fps on the top and 5 on the bottom of their product groups.

I am hoping the OMD shutter might make it to the EP5, as it seems that it's a bit quieter. They could ratchet it back in firmware to, say, only 7fps, and a smaller buffer would also keep the OMD/EP5 differentiation.

On the EPM2, I am beginning to fear you are right -- that it will have the same old sensor -- but I really, really, really hope not! I love the EPM1 form factor, but I need the new sensor!

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EM5; 9-18, PL25, 100-300 and some others.
(also, 6D + RX100)

Did I miss an EPL-4 somewhere along the line ?
Seriously though, at what point do these companies stop selling older versions of their cameras ? Why are the EPL-1,2, and 3 all available new ? Well, ignore the 3, that's obvious.
If it wasn't confusing enough before, it seems to be getting worse.
I was hoping to upgrade either around the holidays or by early next October ( before I go on vacation again ). Do I stick with Oly, or switch to Pany ?
At least time is on my side. Who knows, the next OM-D may be out by then.
I'll keep an eye out around here to see the reviews of whatever comes out.

I think what all of us want, is for the price of lenses to come down.

Given that they produce the sensors themselves, it is not like they have outstanding orders which they then have to include in their own products. It it not like they have a load of sensors that they have already produced lying around either, that is not how consumer electronics works. They make the stuff and they ship it. Anything that stays in a warehouse for any length of time is losing them money.

More likely they don't want to pay the expense of upgrading current production lines, while sales are still good. I am as surprised as anyone that the GF5 seems to have the old sensor, as I though the 16mp one was the new 'volume' sensor. Clearly Panasonic believe it will sell anyway. I think they might regret that, because the budget competition from Sony and Samsung have much better image quality. They run the risk of consumers beginning to associate sensor size with image quality, when the OM-D has shown that does not need to be the case.

They'll stop selling them when they stop selling, if that doesn't seem too circular. It's for the same reason Nintendo still produced the DS Lite until recently, despite the fact that there were several new iterations. It may be obsolete in some respects, but they have a production line to make these cameras that cost millions to set up, and would cost millions again to transition to a new product. It is better that they keep their production output as high as possible using their current lines, rather than spend loads converting them to a newer model, and potentially have lower output.