New Sensor for PEN too? - Page 3

RT_Panther · #21 July 21st, 2012, 07:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mikefellh

As for Nikon and Pentax buying from Sony, it's because there's no one else out there.

Nikon also uses Aptina sensors...

With_Eyes_Unclouded · #22 August 1st, 2012, 09:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Promit

Quote me on this -- Oly has the rights to use the basic 16 MP unit in the G3/GX1/G5, and we'll see some variation of it in the new PEN lineup. The only interesting question is whether they'll get the base GX1 chip or the nicer G5 digital unit.

In light of some more recent rumors about the new Pens being a "moderate update" to the existing ones, this might not be far from the truth. I cannot accept the possibility that Olympus would use the same old 12Mp sensor in the new Pens too. If they do, we are talking about dropping the ball big time.

WT21 · #23 August 1st, 2012, 09:42 AM

I'm already shopping the G5 vs. GX1. As a dedicated EPM1 user, I LOVE the body, but I will not shoot on this 12MP sensor for another year.

pxpaulx · #24 August 1st, 2012, 09:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Promit

I'm dubious about the E-M5 sensor showing up in the PEN series. Most manufacturers reserve a more expensive upper class sensor for their high end cameras. It appears that the G5 is just now getting a tweaked GH2 chip, for example. Second it'd likely cut off the E-M5's sales at the knees if the same exact IQ was in bodies $300 cheaper. It's not out of the realm of possibility, but I think those holding out for the EM5 imaging in a PEN EP5 body will be disappointed. In fact, I think we're going to see the 16 MP Panasonic sensor, objectively similar performance to the GX1 and subjectively superior images.

Rewind about three years, and here's what I think happened. OMD development is just beginning, Olympus knows full well they can't ship anything like the Pana 12 MP toy in their semi-pro body. They ask Pana for the GH series sensor, Pana says no or otherwise makes it economically unfeasible. The (Pana's public comments suggest they simply said no.) The OMD can't compete with the GH series using the upcoming consumer 16MP analog sensor, so Olympus goes to competitors. Sony Semiconductor offers them a cutting edge digital unit and production moves forward.

Quote me on this -- Oly has the rights to use the basic 16 MP unit in the G3/GX1/G5, and we'll see some variation of it in the new PEN lineup. The only interesting question is whether they'll get the base GX1 chip or the nicer G5 digital unit.

Given that Oly has been using variations of the same 12mp sensor up until the E-m5, why would they all of a sudden begin using sensors from multiple sources in order to differentiate their line-up? When the E-pm1, Pl3 and P3 were released it was made clear that Oly distinguishes their cameras based on completely random specs - all 3 of the cameras have their strengths and weaknesses, but the common thread among them was the sensor. With that in mind, why wouldn't they use the E-m5's sensor in the eventual Pen updates? The Pens are different enough from the E-m5 that I don't think they would cut into sales a significant amount. The e-m5 offers significant upgrades over the Pen series - if anything I think we'll see a slimming back to 2 models - a cheaper P4 ($799) to differentiate from the E-m5 and a combination of pm1/pl3 back to a single low end camera. If they have a bunch of stockpiles the lowest camera might still use the 12mp sensor, but otherwise I'm sure they'd stick with the single new upgraded sensor like they have for quite some time with the 12mp sensor.

With_Eyes_Unclouded · #25 August 1st, 2012, 10:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by WT21

I'm already shopping the G5 vs. GX1. As a dedicated EPM1 user, I LOVE the body, but I will not shoot on this 12MP sensor for another year.

I don't mind the 12Mp sensor on my E-PM1; reason being, where I need better IQ, I have the OM-D. I use the Pen most of the time in good light conditions, at low ISO.

Perfornance and IQ on the Pens is objectively quite good; it's just there have been major improvements in

(and other mirrorless systems) the last 2-3 years.

There are a lot of rumors, and we'll know for certain at Photokina. My point of view, which I'd be glad if anyone wanted to discuss, is that Olympus has to at least "match" Panasonics line.

Panasonic currently has 4

series: GF, G, GH and the newer GX. In fact the GX1 is something of a GF1/2 at a higher level.

Olympus, IMO, has to come up with an equivalent, rational line of cameras:

1) An entry level/small form factor camera in GF category: this being the E-PM2. It would be a very clever idea to have a 16Mp sensor in that, thus offering this little bit more.

2) A medium level/small factor body, GX category: E-PL5 or whatever.

3) A camera in G5 category: This can simply be an OM-xx body, with the ommision of alloy construction, weather sealing and some other features from the E-M5.

4) Olympus already has the OM-D at the high end, after the announcement of the GH3 they would have to stategize about what a future "pro" OM-D should have.

Ned · #26 August 1st, 2012, 10:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BAKatz

So with the new G5 getting a 16MP sensor, is it safe to assume the new PEN will get the same upgrade ?
They can leave out the viewfinder though. I'd hate to let my VF2 go to waste. Upgrade the onboard flash instead.
Will Santa be dropping off a new EPL-4 for Chanukkah ? ( yeah,yeah I know )

What Panasonic does with the G5 has no bearing on the sensor used in the PEN series. The fact that the OM-D E-M5 uses a better sensor is a guarantee that the next PEN will have one at least as good. That is how Olympus has been making digital system cameras since they started in 2003. They do not go forward with one line while leaving another behind. Every line of Four-Thirds camera from entry to pro and every line of PEN camera from mini to lite to pen has always had the best sensor, processing engine, and imaging pipeline which Olympus had available to them (with a few rare exceptions, namely the E-520, E-420, and E-450).

Of course any topic of future prediction is speculation by nature, but the history has been so consistent on this point that you could almost call it fact.

meyerweb · #27 August 1st, 2012, 10:30 AM

No offense intended, really, but I have to chuckle at words like "guarantee" and "will" and "quote me." Right now anyone who knows what sensor will be in the upgraded Pens is probably under an NDA, and certainly isn't talking. Anyone who's talking really doesn't know.

I think Olympus would be foolish not to put some variation on a more modern, ~16 MP sensor in the Pens. To try to continue to compete with a 12 MP sensor (except maybe in the e-pm line) would be a challenge. Then again, Oly has done foolish things many times in the past.

But do I know what sensor Oly will use? Not at all. It could be the same sensor used in the GF5, G3, G5, OM-D, or some alternative we're not even considering. Maybe Sony is building yet another m43 sensor. Maybe Panasonic will give them the old GH2 sensor when they come out with a new one for the GH3.

dhazeghi · #28 August 1st, 2012, 10:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ned

What Panasonic does with the G5 has no bearing on the sensor used in the PEN series. The fact that the OM-D E-M5 uses a better sensor is a guarantee that the next PEN will have one at least as good. That is how Olympus has been making digital system cameras since they started in 2003. They do not go forward with one line while leaving another behind. Every line of Four-Thirds camera from entry to pro and every line of PEN camera from mini to lite to pen has always had the best sensor, processing engine, and imaging pipeline which Olympus had available to them (with a few rare exceptions, namely the E-520, E-420, and E-450).

I don't think even those are exceptions. The E-x20 series was broadly speaking better than the E-x10 series and E-3 in terms of image quality (slight loss in sharpness, substantial gain in noise). The E-450 was not a general release item (never made it to B&H for example).

As you say, nothing's guaranteed, but the previous history is highly suggestive. The only reasons I could see for them to depart from that practice is the cost of the E-M5 sensor is drastically higher or the production quantity severely constrained. Considering that Sony has been quite competitive on pricing, and has had very few production issues (not since 2005 really), I would be very surprised if either was the case.

DH

BSH · #29 August 1st, 2012, 10:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by st3v4nt

I doubt they will call it EPL-4 instead they skip to EPL-5.

This assumption in naming bugs me. What basis is there to think Oly would skip 4 in the sequence? Some old cultural superstition? Well, Olympus has a pretty good track record with the number four - wasn't the OM4 one of their best cameras in company history?

Back to the topic, my opinion is that it's a no-brainer for the new Pens to have new sensors (not "tweaked"). Whether it's Panny or Sony is anybody's guess, but they'd really fall down competitively if they don't go up to 16-18MP.

Sammyboy · #30 August 1st, 2012, 10:56 PM

All new Pen's will have a 16 MP sensor.