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  #21  
Old August 18th, 2012, 01:15 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by spatulaboy View Post
Prime just means the lens has a fixed focal length, in other words, it doesn't zoom.

So a Panasonic 20mm would be a prime, and a Panasonic 12-35mm would be a zoom.

In almost all cases, prime lenses have larger apertures than zooms.

By the way, Canon's L series cover both primes and zooms as well.
Thanks for the prompt response...
I misunderstood the prime to be like the luxury line. Thanks to everyone who responded and shared their advice. This is one of the most helpful forums I have joined
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  #22  
Old August 18th, 2012, 02:25 PM
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No need to stick to Panasonic. Olympus makes great lenses as well. The Oly 12/2, 45/1.8, 75/1.8 etc. are all great lenses. Just choose a lens that works for your needs and don't worry about the brand.
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  #23  
Old August 18th, 2012, 06:23 PM
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The only reason to stick with Panasonic lenses on Panasonic bodies (at least for the longer focal lengths) is Panasonic bodies don't have IS (Image Stabilization) in the body, and longer focal length Panasonic lenses have IS inte lens. Olympus cameras have IS in the body.
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  #24  
Old August 18th, 2012, 06:42 PM
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alkhailfa-

Your problem is with the camera setup not the lens. If you get a different lens the outcome will still be unsatisfactory. The Olympus OM-D menu system is very complex and not easily grasped by neophytes to Olympus. If the camera is set-up correctly you shouldn't have any problems stopping motion with clean (noiseless) images.

Reset all your settings back to the factory settings ... and start reading the manual and playing with the camera. I used to be a professional photographer (news photog), I still use full frame dSLR's but the Olympus menu system was so overwhelming and complex that I was unable to easily dial in settings which allowed me to have the camera function as I desired. Something I could easily perform on my dSLR's. It became so frustrating that I came extremely close to dumping the OM-D. But I managed to work through my frustrations and now I'm beginning to really enjoy the camera and the images it delivers.

If, as you report, you understand sputter, aperture and ISO, then shoot in manual and your immediate problem should be solved. If not, then possibly you have a faulty camera.

Gary
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  #25  
Old August 19th, 2012, 07:55 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GaryAyala View Post
alkhailfa-

Your problem is with the camera setup not the lens. If you get a different lens the outcome will still be unsatisfactory. The Olympus OM-D menu system is very complex and not easily grasped by neophytes to Olympus. If the camera is set-up correctly you shouldn't have any problems stopping motion with clean (noiseless) images.

Reset all your settings back to the factory settings ... and start reading the manual and playing with the camera. I used to be a professional photographer (news photog), I still use full frame dSLR's but the Olympus menu system was so overwhelming and complex that I was unable to easily dial in settings which allowed me to have the camera function as I desired. Something I could easily perform on my dSLR's. It became so frustrating that I came extremely close to dumping the OM-D. But I managed to work through my frustrations and now I'm beginning to really enjoy the camera and the images it delivers.

If, as you report, you understand sputter, aperture and ISO, then shoot in manual and your immediate problem should be solved. If not, then possibly you have a faulty camera.


I don't really know shutter, aperture, and ISO like you but have the basics of faster shutter speed higher aperture.

I am really lost with the settings. I have 7D and can get the settings I want quickly. I am about to get to the stage where I want to throw my OMD. I am going to buy a S100 to put in my pocket as camera to fall on in my vacation. May stop by A professional camera shop to check if the fault is in the camera or my lack of knowledge.



Gary
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mikefellh View Post
The only reason to stick with Panasonic lenses on Panasonic bodies (at least for the longer focal lengths) is Panasonic bodies don't have IS (Image Stabilization) in the body, and longer focal length Panasonic lenses have IS inte lens. Olympus cameras have IS in the body.
I have read a couple of reviews about both Panasonic and Olympus lenses. Seems most people have higher opinion on the Panasonic. Is there a difference in quality if IS is on camera or lens especially if you have a Panasonic over Olympus body?
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  #26  
Old August 19th, 2012, 08:55 AM
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It's darned expensive, but you might want the new 12-35mm Panasonic ...

As far as Oly vs. Pana lenses, both have their high-grade all the way down to "kit" offerings. As far as stabilization, the E-MD internal rivals that of the in-lens Panasonic.

But first definitely try setting the shutter speed to 200 or even more ("S" mode), auto-ISO with upper limit of 1000 (*minimal* noise increase on the OM-D) to get the shutter speeds up with the 12-50mm.

Also note, to freeze the motion, the shutter speeds will need to be up there. At these speeds, stabilization is much less of need.



Note, you probably don't need a shutter 1/4000 (such as the above) to freeze what you're interested in, heh.

Quote:
Originally Posted by alkhalifa View Post
What I really need is a lens that will give me some zoom like the 12-50 with a higher aperture like 2.8 or more, with good stabilization for fast objects. Any specific brand from the MFTs?

Sorry if I sound like a beginner but that probably what I am. My photography come from trial and error

Also any advice on books to read?
Thanked by alkhalifa.

Last edited by CarlB; August 19th, 2012 at 09:07 AM.
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  #27  
Old August 19th, 2012, 12:59 PM
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alkhalifa-

Don't know what to say, but it sounds like the problem is with you. Some quick tips and rules to for shooting in manual.

Shutter Speed Rules:
1) In order to minimize/eliminate blur caused by handshake, minimum low shutter speed for handholding a lens is the reciprocal of the focal length. If you're shooting at ... say 300mm then your shutter speed should not drop under 1/300th of a second. If your focal length is 50mm than your shutter speed should not drop under 1/50, et cetera.

(Ignore this part but be aware this get convoluted because the rule was created for 35mm film cameras, your sensor is 50% of a FF 35mm which changes the FOV by 50%. On the flip side you have IBIS which would give you at least a couple of stops under the rule ... bottom line for now is that if you stick to the rule you should be fine and not have any handshake blur.)

2) Stopping action is not simple because your shutter speed requirements will change depending on the speed of the subject and how close the subject is to the camera. A minimum shutter speed of 1/250 will stop most 'sports' action, but you're better off at 1/500 or 1/1000 for a minimum shutter speed. The faster the better.

Remember that 1/250 of a second will decrease the amount of light hitting the sensor by 50% (half) from a shutter speed of 1/125. A shutter of 1/250 allows twice (double) the amount of light to hit the sensor than a shutter speed of 1/500. Each full increment either doubles or halves the amount of light hitting the sensor. In mechanical film cameras the shutter speeds were in full increments and were thus: 1 sec, 1/2, 1/4, 1/8, 1/15, 1/30, 1/60, 1/125, 1/250, 1/500, 1/1000. Each full increments = a full stop.

Aperture:
3) Aperture is the light blocking/controlling diaphragm in the lens. The aperture can open up to allow more light or close down to reduce light. Like shutter speed, the aperture is also graduated/sized for controlled and predictable light control. The graduations are called F-Stops and the F-Stops are incremented as a ratio of aperture diameter to lens focal length. An aperture opening of f/4 is actually 1:4 rendering the aperture opening (diameter) four times smaller than the focal length. If you're shooting a 100mm lens at f/4 the diameter of the aperture is 25mm. If your aperture is f/16, then the diameter of the aperture 16 times smaller than focal length of your lens. Hence, the larger the aperture number (F-Stop) the smaller the aperture opening.

Similar to shutter speed, from any starting aperture, each full F-Stop/aperture increment will either double or halve the amount of light hitting the sensor. Closing the aperture down from f/2.8 to f/4 will halve the amount of light hitting the sensor. Opening the aperture up from f/8 to f/5.6 will double the light hitting the sensor.

4) The bigger the f/stop number, the smaller the aperture diameter and the greater the depth of field. Conversely, the smaller the f/stop number the larger the aperture diameter and the shallower the depth of field.

ISO:
5) ISO rates the sensitivity of the sensor. The higher the ISO number the greater the sensor's sensitivity to light. The greater the sensitivity, the less light is required for a 'proper' exposure. The lower the ISO number the less sensitive/reactive the sensor is to light. The lower the sensitivity the more light is required to achieve a 'proper exposure'.

ISO, like shutter speed and aperture is adjustable in full and partial increments. From any ISO starting point, each full ISO increment will either double or halve the sensitivity of the sensor in reacting to light. Starting at ISO 400 and increasing the ISO one stop (full increment) to ISO 800 halves the sensor's light demand to attain a 'proper' exposure. (You'll need 50% less light for an exposure.)

Starting at ISO 400 and decreasing the ISO one stop (full increment) to ISO 200 you are doubling the sensor's demand for light. If, at ISO 400, your settings (aperture/shutter) were correct for a proper exposure, changing the ISO to 200 now requires you change the settings (aperture/shutter) to compensate for the greater light demand of the sensor. Not changing your setting(s) after altering the ISO from 400 to 200 will create an under-exposed image. In a similar scenario but going from ISO 400 to ISO 800 and not changing one's setting(s) will create an over-exposed image.

6) Increasing the sensitivity of the sensor will also lower the IQ of the image, increasing the noise (grain), contrast and lowering resolution (detail) of the image. Generally, in most modern cameras this deteriorating IQ doesn't become apparent/visible/a factor until ISO 800 to 1600. Depending on the image and one's critical eye will determine how high one can dial in ISO before the noise generated by high ISO becomes as significant as the image.

Each shutter/aperture/ISO increment is equal to each other. Let's say my settings for a proper exposure are:

Shutter
1/125
Aperture
f/5.6
ISO
400

Adjusting any one setting can be compensated for by adjusting any one of the remaining two setting an equal increment. Using the above settings, moving my shutter speed from 1/125 to 1/60 I have just double the amount of shutter light hitting the sensor. I can compensate/balance for the shutter light doubling by reducing the amount of aperture light by adjusting aperture to f/8. By doubling shutter light and halving aperture light I have maintain a proper exposure.

The similar methodology can be used with ISO. Same scenario I double my shutter light by lowering shutter speed from 1/125 to 1/60 (one full increment/stop). I can compensate/balance my exposure by making the sensor less sensitive by lowering the ISO from 400 to 200 (one full increment/stop) and again maintain a proper exposure.

I suggest you go to manual:

ISO = 400

Aperture = f/16 if sunny or f/11 if cloudy

Shutter = adjust until your light meter is centered (keep shutter speed above reciprocal of lens focal length, should shutter drop under 1/lens-length then open up aperture until you attain minimal shutter speed). Start at the reciprocal of your ISO, in this case 1/400 - 1/500.

Go outside and shoot. This is an outdoor, bright light setting. Your images should be reasonably acceptable. (Adjust meter to evaluative or center-weigh mode, at this point do not use spot metering.)

After you are somewhat proficient in manual, then start playing with the other modes and adjustments.

Gary
Thanked by fljoe, monchan and alkhalifa.
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My Snaps are Here: Unsharp At Any Speed
Critiquing my images is welcomed and greatly appreciated.

Last edited by GaryAyala; August 20th, 2012 at 08:54 AM.
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  #28  
Old August 19th, 2012, 10:18 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GaryAyala
alkhalifa-

Don't know what to say, but it sounds like the problem is with you. Some quick tips and rules to for shooting in manual.

Shutter Speed Rules:
1) In order to minimize/eliminate blur caused by handshake, minimum low shutter speed for handholding a lens is the reciprocal of the focal length. If your shoot at ... say 300mm then your shutter speed should not drop under 1/300th of a second. If your focal length is 50mm than your shutter speed should not drop under 1/50, et cetera.

(Ignore this part but be aware this get convoluted because the rule was created for 35mm film cameras, your sensor is 50% of a FF 35mm which changes the FOV by 50%. On the flip side you have IBIS which would give you at least a couple of stops under the rule ... bottom line for now is that if you stick to the rule you should be fine and not have any handshake blur.)

2) Stopping action is not simple because your shutter speed requirements will change depending on the speed of the subject and how close the subject is to the camera. A minimum shutter speed of 1/250 will stop most 'sports' action, but you're better off at 1/500 or 1/1000 for a minimum shutter speed. The faster the better.

Remember that 1/250 of a second will decrease the amount of light hitting the sensor by 50% (half) from a shutter speed of 1/125. A shutter of 1/250 allows twice (double) the amount of light to hit the sensor than a shutter speed of 1/500. Each full increment either double or halves the amount of light hitting the sensor. In mechanical film cameras the shutter speeds were full increments and were thus: 1 sec, 1/2, 1/4, 1/8, 1/15, 1/30, 1/60, 1/125, 1/250, 1/500, 1/1000. Each full increments = a full stop.

Aperture:
3) Aperture is the light blocking/controlling diaphragm in the lens. The aperture can open up to allow more light or close down to reduce light. Like shutter speed, the aperture is also graduated/sized for better light control. The graduations are called F-Stops and the F-Stops are incremented as a ratio of aperture diameter to lens focal length. An aperture opening of f/4 is actually 1:4 rendering the aperture opening (diameter) four times smaller than the focal length. If you're shooting a 100mm lens at f/4 the diameter of the aperture is 25mm. If your aperture is f/16, then the diameter of the aperture 16 times smaller than focal length of your lens. Hence, the larger the aperture number (F-stop) the smaller the aperture opening.

Similar to shutter speed, from any starting aperture, each full F-Stop/aperture increment will either double or halve the amount of light hitting the sensor. Closing the aperture down from f/2.8 to f/4 will halve the amount of light hitting the sensor. Opening the aperture up from f/8 to f/5.6 will double the light hitting the sensor.

4) The bigger the f/stop number, the smaller the aperture diameter and the greater the depth of field. Conversely, the smaller the f/stop number the larger the aperture diameter and the shallower the depth of field.

ISO:
5) ISO rates the sensitivity of the sensor. The higher the ISO number the greater the sensor's sensitivity to light. The greater the sensitivity, the less light is required for a 'proper' exposure. The lower the ISO number the less sensitive/reactive the sensor is to light. The lower the sensitivity the more light is required to achieve a 'proper exposure'.

ISO, like shutter speed and aperture is adjustable in full and partial increments. From any ISO starting point, each full ISO increment will either double or halve the sensitivity of the sensor in reacting to light. Starting at ISO 400 and increasing the ISO one stop (full increment) to ISO 800 halves the sensor's light demand to attain a 'proper' exposure. (You'll need 50% less light for an exposure.)

Starting at ISO 400 and decreasing the ISO one stop (full increment) to ISO 200 you are doubling the sensor's demand for light. If, at ISO 400, your settings (aperture/shutter) were correct for a proper exposure, changing the ISO now requires you change the settings (aperture/shutter) to compensate for the greater light demand of the sensor.

6) Increasing the sensitivity of the sensor will also lower the IQ of the image, increasing the noise (grain), contrast and lowering resolution (detail) of the image. Generally, in most modern cameras this deteriorating IQ doesn't become apparent/visible/a factor until ISO 800 to 1600. Depending on the image and one's critical eye will determine how high one can dial in ISO before the noise generated by high ISO becomes as significant as the image.

Each shutter/aperture/ISO increment is equal to each other. Let's say my setting for a proper exposure are:

Shutter
1/125
Aperture
f/5.6
ISO
400

Adjusting any one setting can be compensated for by adjusting any one of the remaining two setting an equal increment. Using the above settings, moving my shutter speed from 1/125 to 1/60 I have just double the amount of shutter light hitting the sensor. I can compensate/balance for the shutter light doubling by reducing the amount of aperture light by adjusting aperture to f/8. By doubling shutter light and halving aperture light I have maintain a proper exposure.

The similar methodology can be used with ISO. Same scenario I double my shutter light by lowering shutter speed from 1/125 to 1/60 (one full increment/stop). I can compensate/balance my exposure by making the sensor less sensitive by lowering the ISO from 400 to 200 (one full increment/stop) and again maintain a proper exposure.

I suggest you go to manual:

ISO = 400

Aperture = f/16 if sunny or f/11 if cloudy

Shutter = adjust until your light meter is centered (keep shutter speed above reciprocal of lens focal length, should shutter drop under 1/lens-length then open up aperture until you attain minimal shutter speed).

Go outside and shoot. This is an outdoor, bright light setting. Your images should be reasonably acceptable. (Adjust meter to evaluative or center-weigh mode.)

After you are somewhat proficient in manual, then start playing with the other modes and adjustments.

Gary
Wow, Gary, that's quite a tutorial! Thanks for the effort.
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  #29  
Old August 19th, 2012, 11:10 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hydro View Post
Wow, Gary, that's quite a tutorial! Thanks for the effort.
Thanks Hydro. Just a few suggestions and generalizations.

The OM-D is quite a camera capable of absolutely wonderful images ... but the learning curve is steep for some of us (I know, I am one who has found the curve to be a wall.) I think that once you start getting a few decent images you have time to address one feature at a time and get it dialed-in to how you want to shoot. Such as focus, you think you have the AF down to how you like it (say center focus w/ small focus box), then you try face recognition or a different shooting mode like IAUTO and everything you just spent the last few hours reading-setting-testing-reading-setting-testing is gone and you pull out your hair wondering why. It is all just very, very frustrating.

But going back to basics ... back to Manual worked for me, allowed me to get some decent images while I worked out all the other stuff and got higher on the learning curve. I hope the process that helped me could work for others in a similar situation.

Gary
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Critiquing my images is welcomed and greatly appreciated.
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  #30  
Old August 20th, 2012, 05:24 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GaryAyala View Post
alkhalifa-

Don't know what to say, but it sounds like the problem is with you. Some quick tips and rules to for shooting in manual.

Shutter Speed Rules:
1) In order to minimize/eliminate blur caused by handshake, minimum low shutter speed for handholding a lens is the reciprocal of the focal length. If you're shooting at ... say 300mm then your shutter speed should not drop under 1/300th of a second. If your focal length is 50mm than your shutter speed should not drop under 1/50, et cetera.

(Ignore this part but be aware this get convoluted because the rule was created for 35mm film cameras, your sensor is 50% of a FF 35mm which changes the FOV by 50%. On the flip side you have IBIS which would give you at least a couple of stops under the rule ... bottom line for now is that if you stick to the rule you should be fine and not have any handshake blur.)

2) Stopping action is not simple because your shutter speed requirements will change depending on the speed of the subject and how close the subject is to the camera. A minimum shutter speed of 1/250 will stop most 'sports' action, but you're better off at 1/500 or 1/1000 for a minimum shutter speed. The faster the better.

Remember that 1/250 of a second will decrease the amount of light hitting the sensor by 50% (half) from a shutter speed of 1/125. A shutter of 1/250 allows twice (double) the amount of light to hit the sensor than a shutter speed of 1/500. Each full increment either doubles or halves the amount of light hitting the sensor. In mechanical film cameras the shutter speeds were in full increments and were thus: 1 sec, 1/2, 1/4, 1/8, 1/15, 1/30, 1/60, 1/125, 1/250, 1/500, 1/1000. Each full increments = a full stop.

Aperture:
3) Aperture is the light blocking/controlling diaphragm in the lens. The aperture can open up to allow more light or close down to reduce light. Like shutter speed, the aperture is also graduated/sized for controlled and predictable light control. The graduations are called F-Stops and the F-Stops are incremented as a ratio of aperture diameter to lens focal length. An aperture opening of f/4 is actually 1:4 rendering the aperture opening (diameter) four times smaller than the focal length. If you're shooting a 100mm lens at f/4 the diameter of the aperture is 25mm. If your aperture is f/16, then the diameter of the aperture 16 times smaller than focal length of your lens. Hence, the larger the aperture number (F-Stop) the smaller the aperture opening.

Similar to shutter speed, from any starting aperture, each full F-Stop/aperture increment will either double or halve the amount of light hitting the sensor. Closing the aperture down from f/2.8 to f/4 will halve the amount of light hitting the sensor. Opening the aperture up from f/8 to f/5.6 will double the light hitting the sensor.

4) The bigger the f/stop number, the smaller the aperture diameter and the greater the depth of field. Conversely, the smaller the f/stop number the larger the aperture diameter and the shallower the depth of field.

ISO:
5) ISO rates the sensitivity of the sensor. The higher the ISO number the greater the sensor's sensitivity to light. The greater the sensitivity, the less light is required for a 'proper' exposure. The lower the ISO number the less sensitive/reactive the sensor is to light. The lower the sensitivity the more light is required to achieve a 'proper exposure'.

ISO, like shutter speed and aperture is adjustable in full and partial increments. From any ISO starting point, each full ISO increment will either double or halve the sensitivity of the sensor in reacting to light. Starting at ISO 400 and increasing the ISO one stop (full increment) to ISO 800 halves the sensor's light demand to attain a 'proper' exposure. (You'll need 50% less light for an exposure.)

Starting at ISO 400 and decreasing the ISO one stop (full increment) to ISO 200 you are doubling the sensor's demand for light. If, at ISO 400, your settings (aperture/shutter) were correct for a proper exposure, changing the ISO to 200 now requires you change the settings (aperture/shutter) to compensate for the greater light demand of the sensor. Not changing your setting(s) after altering the ISO from 400 to 200 will create an under-exposed image. In a similar scenario but going from ISO 400 to ISO 800 and not changing one's setting(s) will create an over-exposed image.

6) Increasing the sensitivity of the sensor will also lower the IQ of the image, increasing the noise (grain), contrast and lowering resolution (detail) of the image. Generally, in most modern cameras this deteriorating IQ doesn't become apparent/visible/a factor until ISO 800 to 1600. Depending on the image and one's critical eye will determine how high one can dial in ISO before the noise generated by high ISO becomes as significant as the image.

Each shutter/aperture/ISO increment is equal to each other. Let's say my settings for a proper exposure are:

Shutter
1/125
Aperture
f/5.6
ISO
400

Adjusting any one setting can be compensated for by adjusting any one of the remaining two setting an equal increment. Using the above settings, moving my shutter speed from 1/125 to 1/60 I have just double the amount of shutter light hitting the sensor. I can compensate/balance for the shutter light doubling by reducing the amount of aperture light by adjusting aperture to f/8. By doubling shutter light and halving aperture light I have maintain a proper exposure.

The similar methodology can be used with ISO. Same scenario I double my shutter light by lowering shutter speed from 1/125 to 1/60 (one full increment/stop). I can compensate/balance my exposure by making the sensor less sensitive by lowering the ISO from 400 to 200 (one full increment/stop) and again maintain a proper exposure.

I suggest you go to manual:

ISO = 400

Aperture = f/16 if sunny or f/11 if cloudy

Shutter = adjust until your light meter is centered (keep shutter speed above reciprocal of lens focal length, should shutter drop under 1/lens-length then open up aperture until you attain minimal shutter speed).

Go outside and shoot. This is an outdoor, bright light setting. Your images should be reasonably acceptable. (Adjust meter to evaluative or center-weigh mode, at this point do not use spot metering.)

After you are somewhat proficient in manual, then start playing with the other modes and adjustments.

Gary
THANKS Gary!!!

This is Cliffs notes for photography. I have actually your explanation into my phone so I can refer to them. The post is really very helpful. I really do appreciate the time you took to write it. Like you said its not easy getting through the settings of the OMD. I will go back to basics and try to get the hang of using it.

Nasser
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