ETTR still valuable on the E-M5

dhazeghi · #1 July 20th, 2012, 11:19 AM

Finally had some nice weather here in NY today - 68 degrees, heavy overcast, and occasional rain. Hey, it's better than the usual heat!

Anyhow, I made the mistake of leaving the E-M5 on ISO 400. Truth be told, I forgot I had it on 400 from yesterday. That coupled with typically conservative ESP metering (I could probably have exposed by another stop without blowing highlights in many cases) resulted in a lot of surprisingly noisy files. The level of detail I got was rather disappointing compared to my shots a few days ago (all ISO 200, many slightly overexposed).

So it looks like for clean results, I'm going to have to return to what I did with the E-PM1 - scrutinize the histogram closely, be liberal with positive exposure compensation, and when in doubt overexpose. Oh and stick to base ISO where possible!

Cheers,

DH

Luckypenguin · #2 July 20th, 2012, 11:29 AM

I usually run both the E-M5 and E-PM1 at +0.7 EV using ESP metering.

dcassat · #3 July 20th, 2012, 12:23 PM

I can directly relate as I have been shooting in overcast conditions. If I don't ETTR, wow it's easy to lose the exposures to noise. (not an E-M5 ... yet). But when I get it right and the clouds have some shape to them, I love the shots.

It is my plan when I get my E-M5 to continue to shoot as I do now (ETTR, manual) as I believe my results are most consistent that way. I understand that the E-M5 does a better job but I have seen what happens on the beast when you pull from the shadows and I really don't like the mud that lies there.

dhazeghi · #4 July 20th, 2012, 12:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Luckypenguin

I usually run both the E-M5 and E-PM1 at +0.7 EV using ESP metering.

That's starting to sound like a good rule of thumb.

Quote:

Originally Posted by dcassat

I can directly relate as I have been shooting in overcast conditions. If I don't ETTR, wow it's easy to lose the exposures to noise. (not an E-M5 ... yet). But when I get it right and the clouds have some shape to them, I love the shots.

Certainly. And pulling down the exposure in post, as long highlights weren't majorly blown, doesn't really have any negative ramifications.

Quote:

It is my plan when I get my E-M5 to continue to shoot as I do now (ETTR, manual) as I believe my results are most consistent that way. I understand that the E-M5 does a better job but I have seen what happens on the beast when you pull from the shadows and I really don't like the mud that lies there.

Agreed. I will say I was hoping for a little more latitude with respect to noise and exposure on the E-M5, but oh well... Shooting full-frame for 3 years made me pretty lazy in that regard. Still, with the 12-60, I can certainly keep the ISO lower next time around, just by opening up the aperture another stop.

DH

krugorg · #5 July 20th, 2012, 01:12 PM

So, are you guys settling in with the histogram, rather than using the red/blue blinkies? Maybe I need to go back to the histogram.

Quote:

Originally Posted by dhazeghi

Anyhow, I made the mistake of leaving the E-M5 on ISO 400. Truth be told, I forgot I had it on 400 from yesterday.

I've done this a few times!

I wish the auto-ISO had some customization options (min. shutter speed, IBIS on vs. off).

Quote:

Originally Posted by Luckypenguin

I usually run both the E-M5 and E-PM1 at +0.7 EV using ESP metering.

Huh, I am going to have to start adjusting exposure shot to shot. I am using ESP and usually in high contrast/dayligh stuff, I keep it at -0.3, thinking that I am just going to pull shadows and be totally safe on highlights. I think I need to play with this a bit to dial in each shot a bit better. Not too troubled with noise, but always nice to start with less before PP.

dhazeghi · #6 July 20th, 2012, 05:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by krugorg

So, are you guys settling in with the histogram, rather than using the red/blue blinkies? Maybe I need to go back to the histogram.

The problem with the blinkies is that they let you know if you've blown something, but not how your exposure is otherwise. If you're in a high contrast environment, that's probably enough, but in a low contrast one like I had for part of today, I could have exposed +/-1.3 EV easily without blowing/clipping anything.

DH

David A · #7 July 20th, 2012, 06:49 PM

The histogram tells me if something is blown but not what is blown. If I've got the sun in the frame, or a specular reflection from something like a car window, I'm not going to be able to avoid having that blow out no matter how much I pull the exposure to the left. It's handy to know that something's blown but you really need to know what is blown also if you're going to decide whether or not to try and do something about it. Blowing highlights that you want detail in is bad, but underexposing everything because you're trying to avoid blowing something that you can't avoid blowing is just as bad.

The blinkies tell me what's blown and I can decide whether I want to do something about avoiding blowing that area or leave it. That's much more useful to me.

And if there are no blinkies in evidence and I decide I want to ETTR, I can simply add positive exposure compensation until I start to get the blinkies. I've got the highlight warning set to 245 on both my bodies and I know from running a couple of informal tests that if I ETTR until I get the first blinkies showing in the viewfinder/on the screen, I have no problem with that highlight blowing. It either comes in without blowing or a minor touch on the highlight recovery rescues it with no adverse affects.

If you want to run the sort of test I did, and I stole the idea from Pekka Pottka, it's easy to do. Set your highlight warning level to 245 (default on Olympus bodies is 255). Get a piece of white paper and place it in sunlight, and set the camera to spot meter mode. Start dialling in positive exposure compensation until you start to get blinkies on the paper. Take some shots with the exposure one or two exposure compensation steps (1/3 stop steps) before the blinkies show, when they show, and a step or two above that. Import into your processing software of choice and check which shot comes in without blown highlights on the paper, and how far further you can go before you can't recover the blown highlight on the paper.

Once you know that, then you know what to do when exposing to the right, or whenever you get the blinkies showing. You'll know just how far above or below the point where the blinkies first show you can go and know that you'll be able to get a photo without blowing the highlight area.

Luckypenguin · #8 July 20th, 2012, 06:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by krugorg

So, are you guys settling in with the histogram, rather than using the red/blue blinkies? Maybe I need to go back to the histogram.

I find both of them to be distracting, so I just rely on what I am seeing on the screen and evaluate the exposure based on that. The reservation that I have over using the histogram or blinkies is that you can pay too much attention to them and underexpose by attempting to avoid blown highlights. Some highlights are okay to blow.

jnewell · #9 July 20th, 2012, 07:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by David A

The histogram tells me if something is blown but not what is blown. If I've got the sun in the frame, or a specular reflection from something like a car window, I'm not going to be able to avoid having that blow out no matter how much I pull the exposure to the left. It's handy to know that something's blown but you really need to know what is blown also if you're going to decide whether or not to try and do something about it. Blowing highlights that you want detail in is bad, but underexposing everything because you're trying to avoid blowing something that you can't avoid blowing is just as bad.

The blinkies tell me what's blown and I can decide whether I want to do something about avoiding blowing that area or leave it. That's much more useful to me.

And if there are no blinkies in evidence and I decide I want to ETTR, I can simply add positive exposure compensation until I start to get the blinkies. I've got the highlight warning set to 245 on both my bodies and I know from running a couple of informal tests that if I ETTR until I get the first blinkies showing in the viewfinder/on the screen, I have no problem with that highlight blowing. It either comes in without blowing or a minor touch on the highlight recovery rescues it with no adverse affects.

If you want to run the sort of test I did, and I stole the idea from Pekka Pottka, it's easy to do. Set your highlight warning level to 245 (default on Olympus bodies is 255). Get a piece of white paper and place it in sunlight, and set the camera to spot meter mode. Start dialling in positive exposure compensation until you start to get blinkies on the paper. Take some shots with the exposure one or two exposure compensation steps (1/3 stop steps) before the blinkies show, when they show, and a step or two above that. Import into your processing software of choice and check which shot comes in without blown highlights on the paper, and how far further you can go before you can't recover the blown highlight on the paper.

Once you know that, then you know what to do when exposing to the right, or whenever you get the blinkies showing. You'll know just how far above or below the point where the blinkies first show you can go and know that you'll be able to get a photo without blowing the highlight area.

Excellent suggestions. I'd been wondering about changing the 255 setting. This is how I'll figure out whether to do so and how much to change it if I do. Thanks!

dcassat · #10 July 20th, 2012, 07:59 PM

When I use the blinkies predominately I tend to underexpose, so I use the histogram. If I know I've got a lot of top on it I check the blinkies to make sure it's not going to be my subject that's blowing out. I don't like clouds to be blown if they're interesting so that's always in the back of my mind.