The original question was:

That's what I answered. I pointed out the things I would take into account when comparing them, and why I would go for one over the other. Cost wasn't mentioned in the original question and there's no way you get better for less from the same manufacturer. The E-M5 is the better camera, even you admit that, and it costs more as one would expect. The fact that it costs more is no reason to choose the E-P3 if the E-M5 gives you things you want that the E-P3 doesn't.

There are only 2 reasons to avoid the E-M5 because of it's cost. The first is that you can't afford it, and I don't think the OP is in that position because he's seriously considering it and asking advice. The second is that you think you're not getting enough extra for the increase in price. That's a cost benefit question the OP has to answer for themselves. I simply pointed out what the E-M5 offers that is important to me and which I don't get with my E-P3.

Would I take an E-M5 and 14-42 kit lens (the cheapest option here with a lens) over an E-P3 with the 45 if I could afford it? Yes. I could buy the 45 later, and it's a lower cost purchase option for later than an E-M5 body would be. If I could afford the E-M5 first, I would because it's a better camera any way I look at it, and I own the E-P3 also and like it a lot. If I couldn't afford the E-M5, then I'd certainly be happy with an E-P3 as a first M43 camera and as an intro to the system.

And if you're going to factor the VF-2 into the equation with the E-P3, where I live the cost of a new E-P3, VF-2, and 45mm comes to more than the cost of a new E-M5 and 12-50 kit lens which I think is a better option than the 14-42 kit lens. I think a viewfinder is essential with the E-P3 because, in the bright sunlight that I get where I live in Australia, I simply find the E-P3's screen unusable most of the time when I'm outdoors. Either the sun falling directly on the screen washes the screen image out so I can't see it, or the sun is in front of the camera shining into my eyes so my pupils contract and I can't make out the screen because it's too dim. It didn't take me long with the E-P3 to convince me to buy the VF-2 as well.

As for comparing the cost of a refurbished E-P3 to a new E-M5, the OP didn't mention being in the market for a used or refurbished E-P3. If he had I probably would have taken price into account and made a different set of comments.

First off, I don't think there was any heated debate anywhere in this thread, just arguments that can also be viewed from a more wide perspective for selecting a camera.

I missed the part about the OP already having a EVF for the Pen. But, nevertheless, this would be my general thinking on the subject, should I be at the OPs position:

1) If I decided that the EP3 covers my present and near future needs, for the same amount for a new EM5+14-42 kit, I'd go for a refurbished Pen/kit + 45mm + VF2 and probably have some money left for one of the great value for money Sigmas. If I already had the VF2, I'd consider spending the extra money for another used lens (a telephoto or wide prime or whatever). This would be a great camera kit, IMO. In European prices, this would amount to 1100-1200 euro, same as a brand new EM5/kit.

2) If I wanted to "invest" in more current technology and greater value, and should I needed quite a bit more than the Pen has to offer, I'd definitely go for the EM5 and simply wait to have the money for whatever else I'd need in the future. It is solidly established that the EM5 is a great camera and a proven value, albeit at a premium price at the moment. And even its resale value in the following months shall be kept high. Already had the VF2? I'd sell that and invest the cash in getting the 12-50 kit instead of the 14-42; or again getting one of the Sigmas.

But this is how I'd personally handle the situation, simple as that. What we argue about is not 100% objective. Even camera format/looks play their part in buying decisions. As for me, I got the EM5 but kept my EPL2, as a backup, much less expensive body, that I can also carry with me all the time without worrying too much about.

Hope all this excessive analysis helps the OP in some way in his decision!

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This may or may not be an issue for the OP but the reason I went with the '3 as opposed to the new at-the-time OMD was due to the OMDs lack of a built in flash. I use flash all the time and yes, you can certainly buy a better flash than what is in the '3 but in my years with SLRs/DSLRs I discovered that although I carried a bigger flash, 90% of the time the on-camera flash did what I needed for fill. So I quit carrying a separate flash except on the rare occasions that I knew I would need it.

The thing to really think about is the fact that you really can't see the screen on the e-p3 when it's very sunny.

I have the e-p3, Panasonic 20 mm, and the Oly 45 mm, and while the setup is fun and does produce great pictures, I am used to my D700 and the OVF - using the OVF is important to me for correct framing and thinking about the shot.

I also have the VF-3, and find it to be more of a chore to put on and take off when I need it. Plus, if you decide to get an EVF with the e-p3, definitely get the VF-2 as the 3 version is simply uncomfortable to use - I have to be careful not to stick myself in my eye when I use it.

I am now waiting for my e-m5 and the Oly 12 mm - this would give me everything that I need to really enjoy the system and not feel bad that I left my D700 at home.

I would definitely go for the e-m5 right away, given the reasons above.
The better choice would also be to forego the kit lens and get the 20 or the 45 lens with just the body - the system becomes much more portable, but you don't have a zoom.

Just my 2 cents....

Good luck with you choice.

I am grateful for all the advice which has mirrored my thinking over the last couple of months although one thing I had missed is the lack of built in flash on the e-m5. I use flash for fill ins so I need to think about that.

I will buy the camera from my local camera store who are incredibly knowledgeable and helpful, (two of them have micro 4/3 systems) so the price comparisons I have done are based on what I would pay there and factoring in the fact I already have an EVF 2. I intend to keep the e-pl1 plus EVF 2 so there is no income from a sale ... but really price is not the most important issue although price differential is ... maybe the real question I am asking is whether I am wasting the £400.00 difference between the two systems and reading the comments is helping me make my mind up on that. I will go 'hands on' on both systems before I finally decide as so far I have only had 5 minutes with the systems and that isn't long enough.

Again, Thanks for all the help and please keep on chipping in.

I'm not caught up in this thread, but I'll butt my nose in anyways;)
I've got ep3 and em5... I'm flash-tarded, and hated the ep3 flash... But I love the clip on em5 one and it never leaves the camera
It just seems to work how I want it to without me having to do anything. I could never get the ep3 flash to seem like it was doing anything... Reminder... I flash-tarded. So it may very well be ME

- Eliot@Austin, TX

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Eliot

Any Interest in a TEXAS meetup?

If so, post up here!

Hi. I posted a thread a little while ago having sold my O-MD and returning to an E-P3.
You (theOP) would seem to be in a similar boat to me. I would classify myself also as only a reasonable photographer.
I bought the O- MD thinking that it would have all the things that a M43 camera should have in one complete package and that neither Panasonic nor Olympus had managed to include all together in one camera up untill now
After taking delivery I took the O-MD out for a day but it didn't seem to have that wow factor
I couldn't justify the amount of money that the O-MD had cost compared to an E-P3 that I could and had got on ebay for £325.00 and decided that the level of photography I am at did not justify the huge cost differential between the two cameras
Most of my photos are taken in good light or are family photos where the 'moment' is the important thing rather than the technical merits of he photo taken
I take a lot of Macro photos of flowers and insects (or both) which have always come out sharp with brit colours (M43 depth of field helps enormously)
I had a couple of 'niggles' with the O-MD such as feeling as though I had to squint somewhat to look into the viewfinder - I find looking into the VF - 2 atop the E-P3 much more comfortable with the viewfinder better spaced away from the body of the camera
I also felt like I would 'worry' about damaging such an expensive camera compared to just 'getting on with it' with one tat had cost 'only' £320
The E-P3 also suits my bigger hands better, has the built in flash which I value highly and has a quality feel and a feeling of being right ( not that I'm saying he O-MD hasn't got those things)
All in all I decided that a simply very good camera in the E-P3 was easily sufficient For my personal needs and that the O-MD would only serve the 'Gadget' fanatic in me
I resumed with the E-P3 and bought the extra large grip which makes a huge difference to handling and 'security'
The money I saved then got put towards a Panasonic Fisheye and a Panasonic 7 - 14 both of which I managed to get at reasonable cost
Haven't yet gotten around to using these two lenses yet, but I'm sure the increased versatility they will afford will be more than that which would have been afforded by the O- MD compared to he E-P3
I hope this contributes towards your decision making process and helps a little perhaps
Rob

I'm in a similar situation (own E-PL1 and VF-2) and after much thought I just took the plunge on a used E-P3. I got a good price for it and anyway figured that OM-D prices would not come down enough for me to afford it for at least a year, probably longer given how slowly they are trickling out.

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E-P3 | 14 | 25 | 45 | 40-150 | various legacy

I spent a couple of hours playing with both this morning and decided on the e-m5. I preferred the position of 'wheel adjustors' on the e-m5 as old injuries to my hands make the e-p3 difficult but in the end there wasn't enough difference between the e-p3 and the e-pl1 to warrant £600 changing hands even though I would have been happy with the e-p3 if that was my ceiling in price terms.

Thanks for all the comments, it helped me ask the right questions and look for the right things. This site is peerless.

And it is silver, and it is in stock .... waiting for the grip though